@galveston75 saidBreaking news:
So many get so mad at us for knocking on their doors but we are doing exactly what Jesus said to do no matter what Rajk says. And we will keep it up until Jesus tells us to stop.
New addendum discovered at the end of the Bible where Jesus instructs his followers:
"Under no circumstances knock on people's doors when they are relaxing on the sofa or preparing afternoon tea."
@ghost-of-a-duke saidLol. Just put a sign out for tea and we'll join you.
Breaking news:
New addendum discovered at the end of the Bible where Jesus instructs his followers:
"Under no circumstances knock on people's doors when they are relaxing on the sofa or preparing afternoon tea."
@fmf saidYou must have me mistaken for someone else...
Yes, they are. They determine how people inside your religion see their lives and how they believe they should live them.
I'm just a guy on the internet and I enjoy debating.
You guys are my biggest audience.
Orthodox people don't go to the RHP Spirituality forum to check out my notions of God and line themselves up with them.
@suzianne said"get it. But you should also know that people like me believe that supposed Christians who claim that all LGBTQ people are "sinners" and hate them and want to legislate against them do not have the spirit of Christ in them."
Well, we're talking about changing social norms of literally billions of people.
And the best tool we have is mere word of mouth. Yeah, true, you can talk about now we have satellites and broadcasting, and can send a message around the world. Well, frankly, all that technology actually removes the personal aspect from the discussion and turns Christianity ...[text shortened]... ecies to come around? Real Christians are trying. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. 😉
(Suzanne)
Is homosexuality not a sin?
@philokalia saidYour religious beliefs, as you expound upon them here, only create moral imperatives for you yourself and others who share your beliefs. You seem to believe that your notions about supernatural beings and phenomena create actual real-life moral imperatives for people who have different beliefs from you.
You must have me mistaken for someone else...
I'm just a guy on the internet and I enjoy debating.
You guys are my biggest audience.
Orthodox people don't go to the RHP Spirituality forum to check out my notions of God and line themselves up with them.
@fmf saidOh no, I thought that I made this clear:
Your religious beliefs, as you expound upon them here, only create moral imperatives for you yourself and others who share your beliefs. You seem to believe that your notions about supernatural beings and phenomena create actual real-life moral imperatives for people who have different beliefs from you.
it is possible that there is no God, and that would have massive consequences for myself and for many other people who have dedicated their lives to the practice of the worship of God.
Just as such, it has massive consequences for everyone if there is a God.
Would you agree with that assessment?
-Removed-That's correct.
It is wrong to do that -- though there are issues of oikonomie. For instance, when people are in a committed relationship with the intention of marriage and have recently entered into the church and otherwise were living in the other way (a fun euphemism), it is not so grave that they continue said relationships because it is qualitatively different from fornication.
But, still, they should be married. That is true.
@philokalia saidI am unaware of any "massive consequences" other than the morally incoherent notions that just so happen to appeal to your imagination. I am not affected in reality by the contents of people's imaginations. There used to be a guy on here who used to tell me I was going to be reincarnated as a cockroach. He was no more or less credible than you and your religion are. So, when people are peddling patent nonsense, supposed' like "If I am right about this..." and "You'll see I was right when you die..." and variations of "It is because it is" are weak arguments. They have no impact on the reality in which I live. Save it for when you are talking to people who agree with you.
Oh no, I thought that I made this clear:
it is possible that there is no God, and that would have massive consequences for myself and for many other people who have dedicated their lives to the practice of the worship of God.
Just as such, it has massive consequences for everyone if there is a God.
Would you agree with that assessment?
@philokalia saidSorry but until they are legally married, it is fornication. If a church is truly following the Bible and what God has said regarding marriage, they should follow the Bible's guidelines on how to handle that situation.
That's correct.
It is wrong to do that -- though there are issues of oikonomie. For instance, when people are in a committed relationship with the intention of marriage and have recently entered into the church and otherwise were living in the other way (a fun euphemism), it is not so grave that they continue said relationships because it is qualitatively different from fornication.
But, still, they should be married. That is true.
From "Bible questions answered":
The Bible clearly states that “God will judge fornicators.” (Hebrews 13:4) The Greek word for “fornication,” por·neiʹa, includes premarital sex. Therefore, it would be wrong in God’s eyes for an unmarried couple to live together—even if they intend to get married later.
What if a couple are deeply in love? God still requires that they marry before having sex. It was God who created us with the capacity to love. God’s primary quality is love. (1 John 4:8) Therefore, he has good reason for insisting that sex be reserved for married couples.
@galveston75 saidHe has a different interpretation because he doesn't want to wait till he gets married before having sexual intercourse with his girlfriend, added to which - a few weeks ago - he explained that some religious person whose authority he recognizes told him what he is doing is OK.
Sorry but until they are legally married, it is fornication.
Personally, I think it's fine for him to have sex with his partner as long as there are no morally unsound aspects to what is going on, but - just saying - self-righteous Christians with their little bits of self-servingly modified bits of 'holy' ideology make me laugh sometimes.
@philokalia saidNo, I don't agree with any "assessment" that is founded on such a lighweight gimmicky bit of debating.
Just as such, it has massive consequences for everyone if there is a God.
Would you agree with that assessment?
Stuff that appeals to your superstitious disposition does not in any sense or form create "massive consequences" for anyone else, not matter how ardent you are.
And regardless of you slapping on variants of 'what if I am right?' for good measure.
If you present morally coherent and credible arguments that make sense of your ideology of eternal torment, I will most likely subscribe to it. But the idea I will be tortured forever for NOT believing it is not going to work and is not enhanced by "If there is [my] God..." thought exercises.
@fmf saidOh, right, sure.
I am unaware of any "massive consequences" other than the morally incoherent notions that just so happen to appeal to your imagination. I am not affected in reality by the contents of people's imaginations. There used to be a guy on here who used to tell me I was going to be reincarnated as a cockroach. He was no more or less credible than you and your religion are. So, when peop ...[text shortened]... mpact on the reality in which I live. Save it for when you are talking to people who agree with you.
We can have certainty and strong postures about what we believe to be true.
However, if I am right, it will have huge consequences for how you have lived your life. If I am not right, then your assessment here is correct.
I do not know why it is so difficult to see the 'meta' here and why we always have to drag everything back to posturing.
And Galveston and everyone else is right: I am in a less than ideal situation living with someone before marriage and having intercourse -- this is something that started before I was a Christian, though, so perhaps that contextualizes it to some degree.
But rest assured: my faults and flaws are my own, and may my arguments just otherwise stand.
Nobody's personal lives are actually relevant to their arguments.
@philokalia saidArguments along the lines of "If I am right then you will see I was right" or even "I am right and you will find out when you die that I was right all along" ~ in lieu of a joined-up, persuasive, moral arguments ~ are about as wishy-washy and narcissistic as it gets. Try it out on someone else.
However, if I am right, it will have huge consequences for how you have lived your life. If I am not right, then your assessment here is correct.