@caissad4 saidNo, any plan parent office, doctor's office, hospital, wherever it is done. Millions a year are being aborted and women march the street to make sure they can keep the right to have their abortions with the backing of many. So if those lives are not worth saving why should anyone concern themselves with hell? We can rip a child apart while its alive and its a right, why cannot God shift through the human race and say no you cannot have an eternal life in my Kingdom, because? What makes human life so important God cannot cast it away like we do our own within mother's a womb? Value has to be assigned, and if those being cast into Hell have ended up valueless, then they are valueless. Here they have a shot, but once all the choices have been made, you go where you go. You cannot assign your own value in the next life only here can you value what you will.
Are you talking about the abortions administered by the priests of the Temple ?
@kellyjay saidHow does this justify torturing people who do not believe in Jesus for eternity?
They kill babies in the womb without a thought, why would human beings in hell matter? A judgment call not by us but the one who is birthing the eternal kingdom doesn't want anyone in it that isn't worthy according to Him. A mother doesn't even have to have reason for an abortion, and that baby is gone forever. I'm not sure why they think God owes them anything!
If someone aborts a 16-week old foetus, do you believe it is morally justifiable for them to still be being tortured by burning in 54,000,000 years from now? if you do, why is the "reality" [according to you] of that consequence being kept secret from still-living people contemplating having an abortion?
Do you think it would be morally justifiable for me to still be being tortured by burning in 54,000,000 years from now for losing my Christian faith?
16 Jul 19
@kellyjay saidCan you link all these feelings and opinions you have about this topic to the question of torturing ALL "unforgiven" "sinners" in burning flames for eternity? It would be interesting.
No, any plan parent office, doctor's office, hospital, wherever it is done. Millions a year are being aborted and women march the street to make sure they can keep the right to have their abortions with the backing of many. So if those lives are not worth saving why should anyone concern themselves with hell? We can rip a child apart while its alive and its a right, why cann ...[text shortened]... re you go. You cannot assign your own value in the next life only here can you value where you will.
16 Jul 19
KellyJay, swallow your pride. Put behind you the silly thing you did by trying to leverage my wife and kinds into a pro-eternal torture argument ~ accept the reprimand and the request to desist ~ stop being a coward ~ stop blaming me for your unthinking faux pas ~ and then rejoin properly the conversations that go on here with the regulars in this community. It's not as if it was ME who tried to leverage YOUR family against YOU to score a Debating Point, lest we forget! Stop being so small.
16 Jul 19
@kellyjay saidFortunately for me, there is no Hell. It is just another fairy tale.
No, any plan parent office, doctor's office, hospital, wherever it is done. Millions a year are being aborted and women march the street to make sure they can keep the right to have their abortions with the backing of many. So if those lives are not worth saving why should anyone concern themselves with hell? We can rip a child apart while its alive and its a right, why cann ...[text shortened]... ere you go. You cannot assign your own value in the next life only here can you value what you will.
16 Jul 19
@fmf saidNo argument (at least yet).
It's simply ludicrous. Believe it if you want to ~ and feel free to try the 'What if Saint Isaac of Syria is right' argument and pretend it is a moral argument.
And... you continue to misconstrue the reason that I had made that initial argument.
You were responsible for me pointing out something as obvious as it would matter if it turns out to be true because you made an inaccurate statement that the morality of Christians does not apply to anyone else.
It truly can & does if it proves to be true.
16 Jul 19
@caissad4 saidWell that remains to be seen, but the time is coming when judgment comes and those who were condemn get cast out. No different than when we say this life is useless, worthless, or I simply have something else in mind and I don't want it. There is no return for the aborted, there will be no return from hell.
Fortunately for me, there is no Hell. It is just another fairy tale.
16 Jul 19
@philokalia saidYour superstitious beliefs create no moral imperatives for people who do not share your beliefs.
You were responsible for me pointing out something as obvious as it would matter if it turns out to be true because you made an inaccurate statement that the morality of Christians does not apply to anyone else.
It truly can & does if it proves to be true.
16 Jul 19
@kellyjay saidYeah ,yeah. You fruitcakes have been saying that for over a thousand years and just what has happened ? Zip, zero, nothing and nada.
Well that remains to be seen, but the time is coming when judgment comes and those who were condemn get cast out. No different than when we say this life is useless, worthless, or I simply have something else in mind and I don't want it. There is no return for the aborted, there will be no return from hell.
Threats and little else, you are like incompetent terrorists.
16 Jul 19
@philokalia saidAbout Saint Isaac of Syria and the "splendor" of "the scourge of love"? What is there to argue about when it comes to Saint Isaac of Syria?
No argument (at least yet).
16 Jul 19
@fmf saidOf course, I do not know who would go to hell at all. So, there is no point in asking me to name any names.
As I said, this sounds like you want me to respond to your 'It is because it is' mentality and assertions which you believe constitute an"argument".
It's as if you are saying: 'They deserve it because they deserve it! What's your answer to that, hey?'
I have written 10,000+ posts on the moral incoherence of the torturer god ideology, and probably 2,000 since you arrived h ...[text shortened]... erve to still be being tortured 55,000 years after I die. 120,000 years. 3,000,000 years. And so on.
But I do know that hell is a place of eternal fire and a sort of 'outer darkness,' but the fire is not a literal fire as we understand it, but something else. I have heard conceptualizations and accounts of hell that speak of the isolation from others and inability to see another's face as one of the great torments, but that the ultimate torment is separation from God.
Since the punishment is premised entirely on those who have made no effort to be united with God and have chosen to not have Faith in Him, why would you not deserve to be separate from God for 55,000 years, 120,000 years, and 3,000,000 years?
It's what has been asked for either through direct rejection of God or through the constant & flagrant trespassing of his laws that also counts as a rejection.
@philokalia saidIt's wishy-washy rhetoric. "If I am right..." is not a prefix to a moral argument. "If I am right..." is a prefix to assertions that are made instead of a moral argument.
you made an inaccurate statement that the morality of Christians does not apply to anyone else.
It truly can & does if it proves to be true.
16 Jul 19
@philokalia saidHow does your ideology apply to people then?
Of course, I do not know who would go to hell at all. So, there is no point in asking me to name any names.
16 Jul 19
@philokalia saidWhat effect is this speculation-without-evidence, and assertions attendant thereto, supposed to have on moral agents who don't believe these things that you do?
But I do know that hell is a place of eternal fire and a sort of 'outer darkness,' but the fire is not a literal fire as we understand it, but something else. I have heard conceptualizations and accounts of hell that speak of the isolation from others and inability to see another's face as one of the great torments, but that the ultimate torment is separation from God.