Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Proof

@philokalia said
So you would say that Dive fundamentally doesn't understand the Bible because he rejects this ideology, which you appear to say is necessary for a Christian to believe to be a Christian, right?

you appear to say [the torturer god ideology] is necessary for a Christian to believe to be a Christian, right?

No. I have never said that. Blimey. It's as if you don't read people's posts.

@philokalia said
Tell me, why would people inherently not deserve hell?

This sounds like you want me to respond to an 'It is because it is' "argument".

'They deserve it because they deserve it! What's your answer to that, hey?'

@fmf said
you appear to say [the torturer god ideology] is necessary for a Christian to believe to be a Christian, right?

No. I have never said that. Blimey. It's as if you don't read people's posts.

Oh, you are right. You did say it is not the reason you are not a Christian.

My mistake there.

@philokalia said
Sure, the position is something like this:

[quote]According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12.29) who “dwells in unapproachable light” (1 Tim ...[text shortened]... ]

https://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/spirituality/the-kingdom-of-heaven/heaven-and-hell

Those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God . . . But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (Saint Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises).

Sounds like Saint Isaac of Syria had a soft spot for magic mushrooms or some such. He, of course, probably didn't believe he needed to be "fearful" of the dreaded "splendor" of "the scourge of love" because, among other things, he no doubt sincerely believed in "the scourge of love" and the scourge of love" was for people who didn't. Sounds ludicrous. Is this your gotcha quote?

@fmf said
This sounds like you want me to respond to an 'It is because it is' "argument".

'They deserve it because they deserve it! What's your answer to that, hey?'

Why so tight lipped about it?

If you think it is so absurd for humans to go to hell, you should be able to come up with an argument as to why no human deserves hell.

@fmf said
[b]Those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. I ...[text shortened]... ve" and the scourge of love" was for people who didn't. Sounds ludicrous. Is this your gotcha quote?

No, not at all -- it was a description of hell that I wanted to provide the forum.

@philokalia said
Oh, you are right. You did say it is not the reason you are not a Christian.

My mistake there.

A "mistake"? I rather think it is more like a failed rhetorical gimmick. sonship 'forgets' what other people believe too, over and over and over again, and acts like he hasn't read anyone's posts, in order to give him stuff to post that feigns engagement with them.

@philokalia said
No, not at all -- it was a description of hell that I wanted to provide the forum.

It's simply ludicrous. Believe it if you want to ~ and feel free to try the 'What if Saint Isaac of Syria is right' argument and pretend it is a moral argument.

@philokalia said
If you think it is so absurd for humans to go to hell, you should be able to come up with an argument as to why no human deserves hell.

As I said, this sounds like you want me to respond to your 'It is because it is' mentality and assertions which you believe constitute an"argument".

It's as if you are saying: 'They deserve it because they deserve it! What's your answer to that, hey?'

I have written 10,000+ posts on the moral incoherence of the torturer god ideology, and probably 2,000 since you arrived here.

Are you pretending that you've never read any of them? I am not 'tight-lipped' at all.

Make an argument as to why you think Ghost of a Duke and cassaid4 and I - and others - deserve to still be being tortured 55,000 years after I die. 120,000 years. 3,000,000 years. And so on.

@philokalia said
No, not at all -- it was a description of hell that I wanted to provide the forum.

What happened to the "torment in burning flames for eternity" one that you came up with a few months ago?

@philokalia said
Please, heap your criticisms on me. I deserve it.

BUMP: What criticisms do you think I am "heaping" on you?

Personally, I think it's totally fine for you to sleep with your girlfriend as long as there is not any morally unsound dimension to the relationship. What criticisms do you think I "heap" on you?

@philokalia said
Why so tight lipped about it?

If you think it is so absurd for humans to go to hell, you should be able to come up with an argument as to why no human deserves hell.

They kill babies in the womb without a thought, why would human beings in hell matter? A judgment call not by us but the one who is birthing the eternal kingdom doesn't want anyone in it that isn't worthy according to Him. A mother doesn't even have to have reason for an abortion, and that baby is gone forever. I'm not sure why they think God owes them anything!

@kellyjay said
They kill babies in the womb without a thought, why would humans being in hell matter?

Perhaps if there were humans who found a way to torture babies in burning flames and keep this happening for eternity so that the babies could never escape the agony, you could seek to equate that with torturing humans in burning flames for eternity for their thoughtcrimes?

@kellyjay said
They kill babies in the womb without a thought, why would human beings in hell matter?

Are you talking about the abortions administered by the priests of the Temple ?

@kellyjay said
They kill babies in the womb without a thought, why would human beings in hell matter?

As an aside, I have known quite a few people who have gone through with an abortion [as well as others I talked out of it], but I have never encountered anyone who did so "without a thought". Have you? Are you being honest? Or are you trying to cheapen and muddy the discourse on this deadly serious subject with your Trumpian choice of language?