False prophets

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ummm..ok.

But, "the ravenous wolves" disgiused in "sheeps coverings", could not the sheeps coverings look like "good fruit"?
Y'know, like the fine dress of the JW's. Could they not be construed as ravenous wolves? Just a thought...

(They certainly act as hungry wolves waiting to get down my chimney/throught 😕 )

Edit: seems as though Rajk has beaten me to the punch

Christ did not say a tree that produces friut that may look good but is in fact bad, here are his words again,

a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit.

What is the fruit-age that Christendom has produced? wars, ethnic cleansing, paedophilia on an unprecedented scale, greed , corruption, enmities, divisions, sects, strife and a whole host of other undesirable traits. A rotten tree cannot produce good fruit, the facts of history speak for themselves.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im baffled as to why you would continuously post this verse when this is one of the verses in the Bible that CONDEMNS THE JWS ...

(Matthew 7:15) . . .“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them.

The fruits of false prophets are in the ...[text shortened]... ions.
The JWs have a ZERO % accuracy rate... ZERO !! You are FAILURES AND CHRIST CONDEMNS YOU.

i produce it because it applies to you and so called Christians like you.

Gods word clearly states that the fruit of Holy spirit is love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, mildness, faith and self control, all other traits that you are known to display through your posts are listed in the antithesis of the verse, same chapter and of which you show a remarkable degree of dexterity in displaying, traits like, enmity, strife, fits of anger, division, sectarianism, prejudice and hatred. Yes quite clearly by their fruits you will recognise those men.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yo mean like the prophecy that this good news of the kingdom shall be preached in all the inhabited earth and then the end would come, Lol

Ditto...

Originally posted by galveston75
Ditto...

ditto that ditto 🙂

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Indeed jaywill.
I just substitue "Spirit" or "Light" or sopmething like that for "Christ" and it makes perfect sense to me.
I am not hung up on names like Jesus. I feel nothing bad inside for being like that, on the contrary, I find it liberating to know that I am trying to allign myself with an event that will affect the whole world and not just the ...[text shortened]... et to heaven, whereas a perfectly good, selfless, good-doing non-christian wont?



🙄

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Indeed jaywill.
I just substitue "Spirit" or "Light" or sopmething like that for "Christ" and it makes perfect sense to me.
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It may make perfect sense to you. But the question is do you have the assurance that you are prepared to meet God. Or are you still hoping for the best, assuming you have it OK, presuming, guessing, banking, gambling ... ?

When you let Jesus into your heart "the Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God " (Rom. 8:16) .

There is no comfort of assurance like the Spirit of the Triune God bearing witness deep within that He is now our heavenly Father.

Again John writes "In this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, that He has given to us of His Spirit" (1 John 4:13)

The forgiven sinner needs the anointing of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit within for assurance. Man cannot give it. And man cannot take it away. He is from God.

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I am not hung up on names like Jesus. I feel nothing bad inside for being like that, on the contrary, I find it liberating to know that I am trying to allign myself with an event that will affect the whole world and not just the christians.
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You may say that you are not hung up on the name of Jesus. But the Bible says there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

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Surely if Christ came back he would not need an ego boost.
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The Son of God who sweat drops of blood to resist the temptation of escaping the cross has already demonstrated that He has no ego problems. He agonized because He knew He would carry up your sins on His cross and bear divine judgment. Though He was in agony to save Himself He drank the awful cup of wrath that you might not have to drink it.

No, Jesus has already demonstrated that ego problems are totally under His feet. If He had ego problems He would not have carried up your sins in His body onto His cross to bear judgment on your behalf, to whom it was rightfully due.

The same goes with me.

When He physically returns it will be for the total vindication of His work. And this universal and total vindication of Jesus Christ is inevitable. History consumates in it. And His vindication is unavoidable.

"Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him a name which is above every name,

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue should openly confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:9-11)

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People that cant recognize his name, but have led perfectly saintly lives, will not be a part of the new world?
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You want me to help you comfort yourself that perhaps salvation through Jesus Christ is not necessary.

Instead I want to tell you this - If you trust in Jesus Christ God looks upon you as if you had NEVER SINNED.

If you believe into Jesus Christ the question of your justification before God is irrevocably settled for eternity. God looks upon you as if you had never sinned. On Calvary, on the cross of Jesus, you were JUDGED in Him, already. That is if you receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

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Do you have to repeat his name to be saved?
The questions along this line just come thick and fast. Like : If someone does repent to Jesus after a lifetime of wickedness, will they get to heaven, whereas a perfectly good, selfless, good-doing non
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If you receive Jesus into your heart, your history is Jesus. Your legacy is Jesus. Your record before God is Jesus.

Let these words sink into your ears. If you receive Jesus Christ into your heart, when God looks upon you He sees His beloved Son in Whom alone He is completely well pleased. Christ Himself become your righteousness and covering before an absolutely righteous God.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Christ did not say a tree that produces friut that may look good but is in fact bad, here are his words again,

a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit.

What is the fruit-age that Christendom has produced? wars, ethnic cleansing, paedophilia on an unprecedented scale, greed , corruption, enmities, divisions, sects, strife and a whole host of ...[text shortened]... ble traits. A rotten tree cannot produce good fruit, the facts of history speak for themselves.

Umm-I get it.
You are not talking about rotten trees/fruit or sheep/wolves. Its an analogy,(how dare you get off that literal biblical path!!!), and I was just saying that you have interpretted the bible one way and say....ahh- Rajk has interpretted the other.
Just more proof that the bible is NOT the be be all and end all on truth. EVERYTHING needs to be cross-refrenced. Especially if it is claimed to have been spoken by one of the most influencial figures in the western world.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Umm-I get it.
You are not talking about rotten trees/fruit or sheep/wolves. Its an analogy,(how dare you get off that literal biblical path!!!), and I was just saying that you have interpretted the bible one way and say....ahh- Rajk has interpretted the other.
Just more proof that the bible is NOT the be be all and end all on truth. EVERYTHING needs ...[text shortened]... f it is claimed to have been spoken by one of the most influencial figures in the western world.

yes its good Karoly that you can see that, it shows an open mind, to be sure. Anyhow, as for the Shaolin, i was wondering why you might think it strange that a witness of the most high should be interested in their worship and philosophy 🙂

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]============================
Indeed jaywill.
I just substitue "Spirit" or "Light" or sopmething like that for "Christ" and it makes perfect sense to me.
==============================

It may make perfect sense to you. But the question is do you have the assurance that you are prepared to meet God. Or are you still hoping for the best, assum ...[text shortened]... mself[/b] become your righteousness and covering before an absolutely righteous God.[/b]

Ok...we have come to recognize each others posting styles over the past year, right?
I have repeatedly stood up for what is good in christianity but opted not to be labelled "christian". Rajk seems to respect this.

So let me tell you, in my most sincere and whole-hearted, all things considered in heaven and hell, til the end of time may I burn in a hell, skin on fire, writhing in evermore gushes of pain for eternity, that will not feel the need to use only Christs name when it comes to discussing spiritual matters. That there are other valid teachers of spirituality, and that we may even learn about the holy 'spirit' without the aid of a teacher.
I know JC had no ego problems, I was just saying-where is all this "Jesus talk" going? Dont worry about me jaywill. I wont sneak into your home at night and murder your children. My most wicked, conciouss acts are probally committed right here in the spirituality forum.

I am not hoping for the best, but I am willing it.
I am not presuming anything anymore , especially to force what others what they should believe.
Nor guess, nor bank or gamble.
I am telling you , from my most sincere and deepest conviction- I am not afarid of the consequences of my actions/thoughts for I am 100% sure, if JC really is what you and others claim, that He will have no problem with me and that the actions in my life represent someone attempting to achieve my best-which just happens to coincide perfectly with MY interpretation of JC and his message.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes its good Karoly that you can see that, it shows an open mind, to be sure. Anyhow, as for the Shaolin, i was wondering why you might think it strange that a witness of the most high should be interested in their worship and philosophy 🙂

I dont know...I cant say I've ever heard another JW talk that way about another religon.
Which aspects of the Shaolin would you consider to be interesting? I'm curious...no cheap shots 😉

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I dont know...I cant say I've ever heard another JW talk that way about another religon.
Which aspects of the Shaolin would you consider to be interesting? I'm curious...no cheap shots 😉

i like the aspects of harmony, inner and outer and with all living things. The exercise of the body leading to a healthy mind. The practice of a simple lifestyle, free from covetousness. The refusal to kill for entertainment,. The simple yet profound analogies taken from natural occurrences. The selflessness. There are not a few appealing ideals. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i like the aspects of harmony, inner and outer and with all living things. The exercise of the body leading to a healthy mind. The practice of a simple lifestyle, free from covetousness. The refusal to kill for entertainment,. The simple yet profound analogies taken from natural occurrences. The selflessness. There are not a few appealing ideals. 🙂

Well , well..that is a refreshing change indeed.
Its funny how at the core of MOST spiritual ideoligies is a basic, commonsense approach to humanity, where humanity is attempting to better itself rather than create more divisions,hatred,etc.

I do believe I would enjoy going to see the pope with you and observing the dialogue (hypothetically, of course) between you two..LOl. It would be a fine day in Glasgow-to be sure🙂

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ok...we have come to recognize each others posting styles over the past year, right?
I have repeatedly stood up for what is good in christianity but opted not to be labelled "christian". Rajk seems to respect this.

So let me tell you, in my most sincere and whole-hearted, all things considered in heaven and hell, til the end of time may I burn in a est-which just happens to coincide perfectly with MY interpretation of JC and his message.

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I am telling you , from my most sincere and deepest conviction- I am not afarid of the consequences of my actions/thoughts for I am 100% sure, if JC really is what you and others claim, that He will have no problem with me and that the actions in my life represent someone attempting to achieve my best-which just happens to coincide perfectly with MY interpretation of JC and his message.
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Do you mean that you are 100% sure that Christ will realize that it was wholly not necessary that He died on the cross in the manner in which He did ?

Do you mean that as to His pouring out His blood for the forgiveness of sins, He will understand that in your case, that was completely not necessary ?

"For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:28)

Do you mean that Christ will realize that in the case of karoly aczel such a sacrifice was completely unnecessary, for you after all, are doing the very best you can ?

Do you expect Him to acknowledge that in your case He went a little overboard with an uncalled for procedure ?

The prophecy of Isaiah says "Because He poured out His life unto death and was numbered with the transgressors, Yet He alone bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors." (Isa. 53:12b)

You are 100% certain that in your case Christ will realize that such measures were not at all needed ?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=====================================
I am telling you , from my most sincere and deepest conviction- I am not afarid of the consequences of my actions/thoughts for I am 100% sure, if JC really is what you and others claim, that He will have no problem with me and that the actions in my life represent someone attempting to achieve my best-which jus ain that in [b]your case Christ will realize that such measures were not at all needed ?[/b]

Ok I'll give you 2 responses,(I'm a bit complex like that🙂 )

1. Hogwash! Emotional blackmail, heard it all before. My 100% percent may not be as concise as Christs, but REALATIVE to me and where I should be, I am 100% sure that ,based on the information/experience presented in this life thus far, I am 100% honest and answer the best I can for my abilty.

2. Jesus had to die on the cross just as much as the Bhudda needed to be born to produce the experince that is my life. You may say that Jesus had a tougher job, but then again he was born a bit tougher than most, having God as an old man and all... Yes , if the bible is true, then Jesus did a great deed for mankind. Where we seem to differ is that you think that Jesus' act/life was THE most important event for mankind, whereas other saints and prophets,etc. are not even in the same league as JC. (Do I have that right?)
I think that everybody,-thing,-star allignment,-grain of sand and blade of grass,etc. has its own unique universal properties which all contribute to making up the whole fabric of the universe. Even to destroy one atom causes such an enourmous shift in the universe as to make a nuclear reaction.
So in this context I find too much importance is given to Jesus ands his greatness as opposed to say jaywill and His greatness.
I'm dead serious. I think all people have a potentially "Great" side, an innate christ waitng to awaken.But alas, most miss the boat...


p.s. These two responses no way imply that I dislike christians or think there is no place for them and their ideologies . To be sure christians have done ,and continue to do, great things for mankind. If Jesus fullfills their lives and makes them truly happy then I think thats great. God bless.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You need to read some more about them. Google it.

The ones on this site seem to be claiming that they have never prophesied. Why should I believe you and Google over them?
Will Google show me all the prophesies ever made by JWs?
Can you?
Are you able to list all the prophesies they have made so that we can judge for ourselves whether or not they have come to pass?

Originally posted by twhitehead
The ones on this site seem to be claiming that they have never prophesied. Why should I believe you and Google over them?
Will Google show me all the prophesies ever made by JWs?
Can you?
Are you able to list all the prophesies they have made so that we can judge for ourselves whether or not they have come to pass?

we have merely sought to understand prophecies ALREADY WRITTEN, we have originated no prophecies, that is why this type of assertion is so thoroughly devoid of reason. We are not inspired prophets, have never claimed to be inspired prophets we have merely sought to understand prophecy already written, not by us, but by inspired bible writers.