Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeBy our own standards true, when has man to your knowledge ever felt we were not evolved enough, or wise enough? Do you think the true ISIS believers don't feel justified in all they do? So if God holds us all into account by any standard He chooses, isn't it His kingdom to do what he wills and be justified.
I think human beings are evolved enough to determine for themselves who is good.
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Originally posted by FMFSo you're not even bothered that your own "jaundiced view" of him apparently justifies you making stuff up about him?
Be that as it may, but it doesn't answer the question I have put to KellyJay about his jaundiced views on entire swathes of humanity: did they find vindication in his adopted religion or did his adopted religion inculcate him with those jaundiced views.
Originally posted by SuzianneKellyJay talks about how evil and meaningless non-Christian humanity is all the time. That's billions and billions of fellow humans. The word "misanthropy" fits. I'm not making stuff up about him.
So you're not even bothered that your own "jaundiced view" of him apparently justifies you making stuff up about him?
The OP is abut forgiveness of sin.
In the New Testament there are FIVE kinds of forgiveness taught.
If one is not too clear about these different kinds of forgiveness he may be confused.
Briefly the five kinds of forgiveness that the New Testament speaks of can be designated this way:
There is a eternal forgiveness because of being in Christ.
"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ also forgave you." (Eph. 4:32)
This the forgiveness that makes eternal redemption possible.
But also the disciples have an authority to forgive.
"Whoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven." (John 20:23)
This is a second kind of forgiveness in the NT.
Now a third nuance to forgiveness is taught when John tells the redeemed Christians to confess their sins that they may be forgiven. This is a life long practice. I have been a Christians for over forty years and still have no graduated from the need to maintain rich fellowship with Christ by occasionally confessing my sins.
" If we [Christian disciples (including the Apostle John) ] confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
John and his audience were eternally redeemed. They had eternal forgiveness. But even so on a ongoing basis they, when made aware that they have sinned, should confess their sins and applied the blood of Jesus for the cleansing of their conscience. Then they do not lose the peace and fellowship of the Holy Spirit.
For the Holy Spirit within them they should not grieve with sinning.
" And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)
Then there is a fourth kind of forgiveness in the New Testament.
That is the warning that God will forgive us based on our forgiveness of others.
" For if you forgive men their offenses, your heavenly Father will forgive you also;
But if you do not forgive men their offenses, neither will your Father forgive your offenses." (Matt, 6:14,15)
And finally there is a forgiveness taught about the elders of the local church praying that one be forgiven (James 5:15) .
"Is anyone among you ill? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him." (James 5:14,15)
If we are not clear about these different kinds of forgiveness taught in the New Testament we may become confused. Some misunderstand the New Testament economy because they are not too clear about these differences or nuances concerning forgiveness in the Bible.
There are five kinds of forgiveness spoken to above.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIn that case logic would dictate that there is a universal standard by which each individual can judge who is good or bad.
I think human beings are evolved enough to determine for themselves who is good.
But if judging who is good or bad is left to each individual's own sense of right and wrong there'll be no end to the arguing and fighting.
Originally posted by josephwI think the same applies to many religions.
In that case logic would dictate that there is a universal standard by which each individual can judge who is good or bad.
But if judging who is good or bad is left to each individual's own sense of right and wrong there'll be no end to the arguing and fighting.
Originally posted by OdBodI wasn't talking about religion. If, as the Ghost has said, man has evolved to the point that he can judge what, or who, is good, then there must be, according to that logic, a universal standard by which everyone can measure good from bad.
I think the same applies to many religions.
Originally posted by josephwMoral and societal standards have evolved, changed and varied in different cultures, in different geographical locations, at different times down through history. What "universal standard" are you referring to?
If, as the Ghost has said, man has evolved to the point that he can judge what, or who, is good, then there must be, according to that logic, a universal standard by which everyone can measure good from bad.
Originally posted by FMFIndeed. It is also 'illogical' to think a universal standard would occur when societies have developed separately. (correlations sure, but not a common standard).
Moral and societal standards have evolved, changed and varied in different cultures, in different geographical locations, at different times down through history. What "universal standard" are you referring to?