1. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 20:28
    Some think that Crist's sacrifice provides forgiveness for all sins.

    It's true that potentially all sins can be forgiven, but, that forgiveness is not automatic.

    Sinners need to put faith in that sacrifice and ask God for forgiveness of their sins through Jesus.
    (Matthew 6:12) and forgive us our sins....

    They also need to be repentant:
    (Acts 20:21) But I thoroughly bore witness both to Jews and to Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus.
    (Acts 3:19) “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself

    For those who have not known the Christ through all the centuries the Scripture at:
    (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    shows Jehovah God's justice.
    Their death pays for their sins eventhough they did not know the Christ and still on the basis of the ransome sacrifice, He can grant them the free gift of life again, a new start.
    Is that not the correct understanding?
  2. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:02
    Originally posted by roigam
    Some think that Crist's sacrifice provides forgiveness for all sins.

    It's true that potentially all sins can be forgiven, but, that forgiveness is not automatic.

    Sinners need to put faith in that sacrifice and ask God for forgiveness of their sins through Jesus.
    (Matthew 6:12) and forgive us our sins....

    They also need to be repentant:
    (Acts 20:21) ...[text shortened]... an grant them the free gift of life again, a new start.
    Is that not the correct understanding?
    I think you got it down fairly well, as long as you know who it was that died on the cross and rose from the dead that is.

    Jesus isn't a created being. A created being, like an angel, wouldn't qualify or be worthy to pay for the sin committed by a man against God. Only God can forgive sin.

    Angels are ministering spirits. They don't become men. There's nothing in the Bible that even remotely says they do. It's a lie.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Mar '17 21:111 edit
    Originally posted by roigam
    Some think that Crist's sacrifice provides forgiveness for all sins.

    It's true that potentially all sins can be forgiven, but, that forgiveness is not automatic.

    Sinners need to put faith in that sacrifice and ask God for forgiveness of their sins through Jesus.
    (Matthew 6:12) and forgive us our sins....

    They also need to be repentant:
    (Acts 20:21) ...[text shortened]... an grant them the free gift of life again, a new start.
    Is that not the correct understanding?
    Death pays for NOTHING.

    How many times do I have to say this.

    Jesus Christ has already paid for your sin. But you do need to accept the gift.

    Death pays for nothing.

    Judgement comes after death, for things you did without repentance. Death pays for nothing, you will still be judged.

    Unless you mean the second death, the effect of judgement for sinning without repentance. That death is final. Your existence is over, so again, even that death pays for nothing.

    Only the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ, the one without sin, pays for sin. But one must accept that gift through repentance. That much you've gotten right, but your last few sentences are nonsense. One's own death pays for nothing.
  4. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:23
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Death pays for NOTHING.

    How many times do I have to say this.

    Jesus Christ has already paid for your sin. But you do need to accept the gift.

    Death pays for nothing.

    Judgement comes after death, for things you did without repentance. Death pays for nothing, you will still be judged.

    Unless you mean the second death, the effect of judgemen ...[text shortened]... ou've gotten right, but your last few sentences are nonsense. One's own death pays for nothing.
    Sure does look like riogam is saying that a man's death pays for his own sins. I didn't notice that till I read your post.

    If that's what riogam meant, then it sounds like more JW heretical teaching.
  5. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:26
    Originally posted by josephw
    I think you got it down fairly well, as long as you know who it was that died on the cross and rose from the dead that is.

    Jesus isn't a created being. A created being, like an angel, wouldn't qualify or be worthy to pay for the sin committed by a man against God. Only God can forgive sin.

    Angels are ministering spirits. They don't become men. There's nothing in the Bible that even remotely says they do. It's a lie.
    You are correct that an angel could not pay the price.

    Since the sin is against Jehovah God, it's up to Him as to what He will accept as payment for sin.

    In the days of the Israelites, He accepted animal sacrifices.
    Now He accepts as a perfect balance for the sin Adam brought to mankind, His own dear Son, Christ Jesus.
    (Hebrews 7:26-28) For it is fitting for us to have such a high priest who is loyal, innocent, undefiled, separated from the sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike those high priests, he does not need to offer up sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, because he did this once for all time when he offered himself up. 28 For the Law appoints as high priests men who have weaknesses, but the word of the oath sworn after the Law appoints a son, who has been made perfect forever.
  6. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:38
    Originally posted by roigam
    Some think that Crist's sacrifice provides forgiveness for all sins.

    It's true that potentially all sins can be forgiven, but, that forgiveness is not automatic.

    Sinners need to put faith in that sacrifice and ask God for forgiveness of their sins through Jesus.
    (Matthew 6:12) and forgive us our sins....

    They also need to be repentant:
    (Acts 20:21) ...[text shortened]... an grant them the free gift of life again, a new start.
    Is that not the correct understanding?
    In another thread you recently said that the dead have paid for their sins by dying. I questioned you on this claim but you dodged and disappeared as you always do when cornered.

    Are you going to explain your claim now in the light you this new OP?
  7. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:45
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Death pays for NOTHING.

    How many times do I have to say this.

    Jesus Christ has already paid for your sin. But you do need to accept the gift.

    Death pays for nothing.

    Judgement comes after death, for things you did without repentance. Death pays for nothing, you will still be judged.

    Unless you mean the second death, the effect of judgemen ...[text shortened]... ou've gotten right, but your last few sentences are nonsense. One's own death pays for nothing.
    I appreciate your generosity in wanting to include everyone even as Jehovah God does:
    (1 Timothy 2:4) whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

    but the Bible shows not all will be saved:
    (Mark 3:29) But whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever but is guilty of everlasting sin.”

    also,
    (Hebrews 6:4-6) For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.
  8. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:531 edit
    Is it so hard to believe that our loving Heavenly Father is willing to allow death to pay for one's sins and then give those who have died and did not know the Christ a new start, a gift of life?
    (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    We know that if one continues in sin it leads to death.So, is it not reasonable that God would accept that as a price for sin?
    It's the price He quoted Adam!
    (Genesis 2:17) But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”

    Again He allowed the Israelites to pay for their sins with animal sacrifices.
  9. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 21:56
    Originally posted by roigam
    You are correct that an angel could not pay the price.

    Since the sin is against Jehovah God, it's up to Him as to what He will accept as payment for sin.

    In the days of the Israelites, He accepted animal sacrifices.
    Now He accepts as a perfect balance for the sin Adam brought to mankind, His own dear Son, Christ Jesus.
    (Hebrews 7:26-28) For it is fitt ...[text shortened]... but the word of the oath sworn after the Law appoints a son, who has been made perfect forever.
    "You are correct that an angel could not pay the price."

    But you believe Jesus was an angel in his pre-incarnate existence. Right?

    Jesus is God's only "begotten" son. That doesn't mean that Jesus was created.

    In John 1:14 the word "begotten" means one of a kind. It's meaning has nothing to do with having been created. You better do your homework.

    John 1:1 has been completely corrupted in the NWT.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    26 Mar '17 22:00
    Originally posted by roigam
    Is it so hard to believe that our loving Heavenly Father is willing to allow death to pay for one's sins and then give those who have died and did not know the Christ a new start, a gift of life?
    (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    We know that if one continues in sin it leads t ...[text shortened]... certainly die.”

    Again He allowed the Israelites to pay for their sins with animal sacrifices.
    What you believe is meaningless if it isn't backed up with scripture.
  11. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 22:00
    Originally posted by roigam
    Is it so hard to believe that our loving Heavenly Father is willing to allow death to pay for one's sins and then give those who have died and did not know the Christ a new start, a gift of life?
    (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    We know that if one continues in sin it leads t ...[text shortened]... certainly die.”

    Again He allowed the Israelites to pay for their sins with animal sacrifices.
    It's unbiblical and therefore unreasonable that a sinner can pay his own sin's debt.

    And it's heresy. You better wake up.
  12. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 22:10
    Originally posted by josephw
    [b]"You are correct that an angel could not pay the price."

    But you believe Jesus was an angel in his pre-incarnate existence. Right?

    Jesus is God's only "begotten" son. That doesn't mean that Jesus was created.

    In John 1:14 the word "begotten" means one of a kind. It's meaning has nothing to do with having been created. You better do your homework.

    John 1:1 has been completely corrupted in the NWT.[/b]
    That's right.
    Jesus was Michael in his prehuman life.
    He was Jehovah's firstborn and through him all things were created,
    Michael had to give up his position and angelic nature to become a man.
    (Philippians 2:7) No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.
    (1 Corinthians 15:47) The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.
    (1 John 2:2) And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.
    (John 3:19) Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked.
    So, again, not all accept Jesus as a man.
    I love to do my homework!
  13. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 22:10
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In another thread you recently said that the dead have paid for their sins by dying. I questioned you on this claim but you dodged and disappeared as you always do when cornered.

    Are you going to explain your claim now in the light you this new OP?
    Roigam??
  14. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 22:13
    My PC acts like it is full of molasses and I need to assist my wife with some shopping so I'll check back later.
  15. Joined
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    26 Mar '17 22:15
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Roigam??
    Sorry Dive.
    I thought you had a point and I needed time to consider it.
    My answer is this thread.
    I will catch you later.
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