Spirituality
29 Oct 12
30 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDoes that mean you disagree with G75 in this case?
This appears to me to be the Gmans personal opinion, which he is entitled to express, I
myself have formed no consensus on whether a punishment is deserving or not, its a
matter for the governments. The Bible does not oppose capital punishment.
30 Oct 12
2 edits
Originally posted by FMFBut Paul said: “I am standing before the judgment seat of Caesar, where I ought to
This sounds like a dodge. You said "In the case of murder its a matter for the governments" implying that in cases that are not murder, the death penalty is unjust. What does the bible have to say about the death penalty?
be judged. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also are finding out quite well.
If, on the one hand, I am really a wrongdoer and have committed anything
deserving of death, I do not beg off from dying; if, on the other hand, none of those
things exists of which these [men] accuse me, no man can hand me over to them as
a favour. I appeal to Caesar!”
here Paul speaks of a crime, deserving of death,
(Romans 13:1-4) . . .Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for
there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their
relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a
stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will
receive judgment to themselves. For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the
good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority?
Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you
for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without
purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath
upon the one practicing what is bad.
here Paul speaks of the governmental authorities as expressing Gods wrath on
those practising what is , 'bad'.
(1 Peter 4:15) However, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an
evildoer or as a busybody in other people’s matters.
Here Peter states that government have a right to make a murderer , 'suffer',
probably death, for his crime.
30 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePeter mentioned "a murderer" and "a thief" and "an evildoer". Can "a thief" and "an evildoer" be executed do you think?
(1 Peter 4:15) However, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a busybody in other people’s matters.
Here Peter states that government have a right to make a murderer , 'suffer', probably death, for his crime.
30 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe following from your quote of Paul seems to pretty clearly coincide with G75s statement:
I neither agree nor disagree, I have formed no opinion on the matter.
(Romans 13:1-4) . . .Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for
there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their
relative positions by God. 2 Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a
stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will
receive judgment to themselves.
So have you similarly "formed no opinion on the matter" with regards to Paul's statements?
30 Oct 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo that includes capital punishment for whatever governmental agencies decide, and not just murder?
No, Paul is counselling christians to be in subjection to the governmental agencies
placed in their relative positions by God, its very clear.