Go on the record ToOne!

Originally posted by knightmeister
Since it is you that is stalking the beliefs of others that's ironic. You never say what you believe - but see fit to attack what you call "Paulians". If you don't believe Christianity then fine , but stop denigrating it and stalking it.

BTW- Your attempts at diagnosing my Psychological condition are quite pathetic. The interesting thing about your posts is what they don't contain (ie proper responses) rather than what they do.

How does what he believes or whether he admits to believing anything impact on his right to attach "Paulians" especially when the same "Paulians" claim to be primarily Christian?
As far as I can tell so far TOO has consistently preached the following of Christs message, if that is not Christianity, then what is? Paulism perhaps? If TOO is preaching Christianity, then why do you describe it as 'denigrating' Christianity? I realize you have different beliefs from him, but that is a universal problem for theists -get used to it!

Originally posted by twhitehead
How does what he believes or whether he admits to believing anything impact on his right to attach "Paulians" especially when the same "Paulians" claim to be primarily Christian?
As far as I can tell so far TOO has consistently preached the following of Christs message, if that is not Christianity, then what is? Paulism perhaps? If TOO is preaching Chri ...[text shortened]... e different beliefs from him, but that is a universal problem for theists -get used to it!

"As far as I can tell so far TOO has consistently preached the following of Christs message,.."

Yes, ToO has consistently held to an aberration of the message of Jesus while ignoring not only the rest of what Jesus said, but evading legitimate questions from those of us willing to challenge his assertions.

The techniques of ToO's debating methods is to assert, evade, denigrate, ignore, and obfuscate.

Who does ToO think he is? He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. But he thinks that he and his beliefs are superior to the degree that he is above straightforward debate.

I've been following this debate between ToO and knightmeister for 4 years now, and knightmeister has been consistently up front and honest, and has tried everything possible to have an honest debate with ToO.

I'll feel sorry for ToO when knightmeister finally gives up on him.

Originally posted by twhitehead
How does what he believes or whether he admits to believing anything impact on his right to attach "Paulians" especially when the same "Paulians" claim to be primarily Christian?
As far as I can tell so far TOO has consistently preached the following of Christs message, if that is not Christianity, then what is? Paulism perhaps? If TOO is preaching Chri ...[text shortened]... e different beliefs from him, but that is a universal problem for theists -get used to it!

As far as I can tell so far TOO has consistently preached the following of Christs message, if that is not Christianity, then what is?

----WHITEY------------

The problem is he has distorted the original message. That's what the whole thing is about.

As to what he believes , it's important because then we can see how his argument has been constructed. If , for example , he admits to not believing that Christ was ressurected then we will know that he has been selective in his argument because Christ did teach that he would rise again. It would also be useful to know if he believed in a Living God because Jesus certainly did. If he doesn't (as I strongly suspect) then what does that say about his understanding of Jesus.

My guess is that he won't reveal his beliefs because it will show that he doesn't have an overall coherent system and has to pick and choose which teachings he emphasises and which he ignores.

Originally posted by knightmeister
"You are willing to do anything including lying to denigrate someone simply because he holds beliefs different than you."
-------ToOne----------------

Since it is you that is stalking the beliefs of others that's ironic. You never say what you believe - but see fit to attack what you call "Paulians". If you don't believe Christianity then fine , b ...[text shortened]... ut your posts is what they don't contain (ie proper responses) rather than what they do.

Since it is you that is stalking the beliefs of others that's ironic. You never say what you believe - but see fit to attack what you call "Paulians". If you don't believe Christianity then fine , but stop denigrating it and stalking it.

"Stalking the beliefs of others"? You really need to get a grip. I express my views on spiritual matters just as others express their views on this forum. Occasionally I also challenge views on spiritual matters that are incoherent just as others do. That's what a public forum is about. Only a nutter obsessively follows a poster whose views differ from his from thread to thread and post after post in order to have a go at him. That you then deny that you do this points to even other serious problems. That you continually lie, and deny that you do so, in order to do this is also alarming. Seriously, it's probably been a couple of years now that you've been obsessed with this. I suppose if I were a nutter, I'd do similarly with everyone whose views differ from mine while proclaiming that they are "stalking my beliefs".

Originally posted by josephw
Get off the defensive ToO.

This thread is designed to give you the opportunity to answer a few simple questions without your typical evasive maneuvering.

Your line is that one must stop sinning to be righteous.

Have [b]you stopped sinning? Have you ever stopped sinning? Will you stop sinning?

If, as you quote Jesus as saying, on ...[text shortened]... done? If you have stopped sinning, then certainly you should be able to describe how you did it.[/b]

Maybe you missed this when I posted it earlier:

IIRC what I did was point out that Jesus taught that you cannot continue to sin and enter the "Kingdom of Heaven".

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven....Depart from me, you who work iniquity."

For whatever reason, many Christians ask me if I have stopped sinning as if it may make a difference as to what Jesus taught. The question is irrelevant. What Jesus taught is not in any way dependent on whether or not I sin. That so many of you seem to have such trouble wrapping your minds around this fact is quite telling.

As to how to stop sinning, Jesus says this:
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."

If you continue in His word, you will know the truth and the truth will make you free from committing sin.

If I recall correctly, you kept insisting that in this passage, Jesus was speaking of being made free from the penalty of sin rather than from committing sin as He explicitly states. Clearly it is your claim that is "an aberration of the message of Jesus."

Both of you probably need psychiatric help. Heck ,we probably all do.
Lets take this thread as a chance to all heal our mental scars a bit. ToO , you have a chance to clarify your stance a bit and go on record. It really shouldn't be a big deal.
To have a stalker/fan like KM should please you. A personal little christian buddy to help you with those lofty thoughts...ahh! if we all had a personal internet friend like KM ...

Originally posted by knightmeister
The problem is he has distorted the original message. That's what the whole thing is about.

Or so you say, but then every Christian says that about every other Christian. Whats new?

As to what he believes , it's important because then we can see how his argument has been constructed. If , for example , he admits to not believing that Christ was ressurected then we will know that he has been selective in his argument because Christ did teach that he would rise again. It would also be useful to know if he believed in a Living God because Jesus certainly did. If he doesn't (as I strongly suspect) then what does that say about his understanding of Jesus.

My guess is that he won't reveal his beliefs because it will show that he doesn't have an overall coherent system and has to pick and choose which teachings he emphasises and which he ignores.
I am yet to meet a Theist with an overall coherent system. The problem you have is that you have failed to pick holes in TOO's arguments and you cant stand it and you think that your only chance is if you can find out that his is not Christian, then it will somehow make you feel better.
If TOO is being selective, then simply point that out and show the teachings that either contradict his claims or add to them to give a fuller picture. Not knowing what TOO believes should not stop you from constructing your argument.

Originally posted by josephw
Yes, ToO has consistently held to an aberration of the message of Jesus while ignoring not only the rest of what Jesus said, but evading legitimate questions from those of us willing to challenge his assertions.

The techniques of ToO's debating methods is to assert, evade, denigrate, ignore, and obfuscate.

That doesn't sound far off from many of the debaters on this site. I for one find TOO to be far more reasonable and sensible than the average debater here, so why pick on him?

Who does ToO think he is? He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. But he thinks that he and his beliefs are superior to the degree that he is above straightforward debate.
Sounds like a typical Christian to me.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Or so you say, but then every Christian says that about every other Christian. Whats new?

[b]As to what he believes , it's important because then we can see how his argument has been constructed. If , for example , he admits to not believing that Christ was ressurected then we will know that he has been selective in his argument because Christ did teac ...[text shortened]... picture. Not knowing what TOO believes should not stop you from constructing your argument.

If TOO is being selective, then simply point that out and show the teachings that either contradict his claims or add to them to give a fuller picture.
------Whitey ------------------------

People have been doing this for years but there's no way in. Look at the righteous thief thread for example.

The difference is that ToOne makes no ATTEMPT at coherence. He just pretends certain passages do not exist.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Both of you probably need psychiatric help. Heck ,we probably all do.
Lets take this thread as a chance to all heal our mental scars a bit. ToO , you have a chance to clarify your stance a bit and go on record. It really shouldn't be a big deal.
To have a stalker/fan like KM should please you. A personal little christian buddy to help you with those lofty thoughts...ahh! if we all had a personal internet friend like KM ...

ahh! if we all had a personal internet friend like KM ...

---------karoly-----------

..........would you like to be my friend......? LOL

I promise I won't come round to your house and boil your bunny.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Since it is you that is stalking the beliefs of others that's ironic. You never say what you believe - but see fit to attack what you call "Paulians". If you don't believe Christianity then fine , but stop denigrating it and stalking it.

"Stalking the beliefs of others"? You really need to get a grip. I express my views on spiritual matters just ...[text shortened]... whose views differ from mine while proclaiming that they are "stalking my beliefs".[/b]

"Stalking the beliefs of others"?

-----ToOne-----------

Yes.

Do you deny that you have started threads that directly attack Christianity? (eg blood / animal sacrifice)

You start a thread like that but then when a coherent argument is put to you in it's defence you evade it.

You version of jesus (little j deliberate) portrays his message as perfectionist and intolerant of human failings. The fact is that no human being is perfect and all are flawed and subject to lapses and sinful behaviour. The real Jesus is much more patient with us than this and has immense compassion for our failings.

You turn the Gospel of grace and compassion into a gospel (g deliberate) of judgement.

In short , you try and turn something beautiful into something ugly by SELECTIVE quoting and rigid interpretation.

BTW- There's one HUGE difference between my understanding of Jesus and yours. Yours cannot be lived - it is impractical and impossible. Any spiritual belief that cannot be lived out in real terms is irrelevant. Believe what you like about Jesus - it's all useless because no-one can live it.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Do you deny that you have started threads that directly attack Christianity? (eg blood / animal sacrifice)

🙄

Lots of people start threads that directly attack Christianity.

Originally posted by knightmeister
As to what he believes , it's important because then we can see how his argument has been constructed. If , for example , he admits to not believing that Christ was ressurected then we will know that he has been selective in his argument because Christ did teach that he would rise again. It would also be useful to know if he believed in a Living God becau ...[text shortened]... d. If he doesn't (as I strongly suspect) then what does that say about his understanding of Jesus.

I say you never get those answers.

Of course, it doesn't help that you continually lie and are in need of psychiactric help. 😛

Originally posted by SwissGambit
🙄

Lots of people start threads that directly attack Christianity.

But I think that the main difference is that most who do simply kick the entire teachings to the curb instead of trying to reconstruct them.

Originally posted by knightmeister
"Stalking the beliefs of others"?

-----ToOne-----------

Yes.

Do you deny that you have started threads that directly attack Christianity? (eg blood / animal sacrifice)

You start a thread like that but then when a coherent argument is put to you in it's defence you evade it.

You version of jesus (little j deliberate) portrays his messag rrelevant. Believe what you like about Jesus - it's all useless because no-one can live it.

Did you get past the first sentence?

I'll rephrase it in case you were unable to comprehend my prior post. This is the spirituality forum. People express their views on spiritual matters. Sometimes people are going to express views on spiritual matters that don't coincide with your own. They are not "stalking your beliefs". They are using the forum as intended.

The fact is that no human being is perfect and all are flawed and subject to lapses and sinful behaviour. The real Jesus is much more patient with us than this and has immense compassion for our failings.

If this was so important to the teachings of Jesus, you should have no problem producing passages from when He walked the Earth and taught something akin to, "I have spoken at length as to what is and what is not righteous. However, this is impossible to achieve. You are all flawed and subject to lapses and sinful behavior. With this in mind and because of my patience and immense compassion for your failings, everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; even those who do not do the will of my Father who is in heaven."

This is your chance to show how your understanding of Jesus is fully supported by His teachings. After you've posted them all, I can repost the passages of His teachings that support my position. Maybe we can then work on reconciling them together.