Originally posted by ahosyneyIf someone asked you these two questions, you would answer as follows:
No its not a presumption, it is the fact that you ignore. There nothing that just came into being, name one if you know it. Every thing we see or know now is created some how. It has a creator who made it.
Did God 'just come into being?' No. Is God 'uncreated?' Yes.
(Stop me if I am wrong.)
If you can assert (without proof, mind you) that God is uncreated, why can't Starrman assert
that the universe is uncreated?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioThe answer is the same logic he use.
If someone asked you these two questions, you would answer as follows:
Did God 'just come into being?' No. Is God 'uncreated?' Yes.
(Stop me if I am wrong.)
If you can assert (without proof, mind you) that God is uncreated, why can't Starrman assert
that the universe is uncreated?
Nemesio
He assume that the universe is uncreated. So he can accept the idea that there something that could be uncreated. So why he reject the Idea that GOD is uncreated.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAIDS is a virus and so it a creature like any other creature.
Who created AIDS, and Alzheimer's disease?
Alzheimer is a damage in the brain results from different reasons. It is not a creature its made , and has a maker which is the human behaviour.
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Originally posted by ahosyneyI don't reject the concept that if god existed, he could be uncreated. I just don't hold to the belief that he exists.
The answer is the same logic he use.
He assume that the universe is uncreated. So he can accept the idea that there something that could be uncreated. So why he reject the Idea that GOD is uncreated.
You on the other hand support the notion that god was uncreated and yet the same concept is not applicable to the universe, thus making your position hypocritical.
Originally posted by StarrmanIf that is the only evidence I have then may be you are write. But I have other evidences , which you may not accept.
I don't reject the concept that if god existed, he could be uncreated. I just don't hold to the belief that he exists.
You on the other hand support the notion that god was uncreated and yet the same concept is not applicable to the universe, thus making your position hypocritical.
Originally posted by ahosyneyWe're not talking about evidence here, we're talking about the logical position which suggests that both the universe and god are or are not created. The nature of existence of each is secondary at the moment.
If that is the only evidence I have then may be you are write. But I have other evidences , which you may not accept.
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Originally posted by StarrmanOk lets make it clear here,
We're not talking about evidence here, we're talking about the logical position which suggests that both the universe and god are or are not created. The nature of existence of each is secondary at the moment.
We can say that each creature has a creator. We can go with this chain untill we reach some being which end the chain. This being is uncreated. I think you and me may agree on that.
So now the universe cann't be creator, because it is simply a group creature goined to gather. So there is some other being which is not created.
No one claim that he is that being except GOD, he declared about himself as the only creator and he proved it to us. So why don't we accept that. Do you know any one else claim that he is the only creator, and the only uncreated on? Did he manage to prove it?
The problem between you and me will be how did he declare about himself?
I will say that he declared that through prophets and their messages. I got a message from a prophet I looked at it and check whether it meet my knolage and my mind and then I accepted it.
You may have seen the message but you didn't accept it.
So what end this, Did GOD really declared himself through prophets or not?
Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok lets make it clear here,
We can say that each creature has a creator. We can go with this chain untill we reach some being which end the chain. This being is uncreated. I think you and me may agree on that.
I'm not sure what you mean by a creator. I believe each being was created by the processes of nature, but not by a being or supernatural power. I don't believe that you can trace life back to a creator.
So now the universe cann't be creator, because it is simply a group creature goined to gather. So there is some other being which is not created.
Why not? The universe is an entity, not a creature. It may have existed forever and does not necessarily require a creator. The rest of your post flows from this and I do not agree with your premises.
Originally posted by StarrmanI didn't mean a supernatural. I mean exactly as you said processes o f nature.
Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]Ok lets make it clear here,
We can say that each creature has a creator. We can go with this chain untill we reach some being which end the chain. This being is uncreated. I think you and me may agree on that.
I'm not sure what you mean by a creator. I believe each being was created by the processes of nat ...[text shortened]... uire a creator. The rest of your post flows from this and I do not agree with your premises.[/b]
What is the different between you and the universe?
If you belive that you are a creature, who did creature you?
Originally posted by ahosyneyThe difference between me and the universe is that I am an entity created by a natural process from smaller parts of matter, the universe was not created from smaller parts of anything else, nor does it have to have been created.
I didn't mean a supernatural. I mean exactly as you said processes o f nature.
What is the different between you and the universe?
If you belive that you are a creature, who did creature you?
Originally posted by StarrmanI think we should define the universe.
The difference between me and the universe is that I am an entity created by a natural process from smaller parts of matter, the universe was not created from smaller parts of anything else, nor does it have to have been created.
The universe is composed of everything so how it is created like everything else.
And I asked you did the universe created you? If you belive you are a creature who did it?