20 Jun 15
Originally posted by FMFI'm not "pretending" anything. I'm "telling" you that your opinion means nothing to me. You're just taking advantage of an open opportunity. I'm sure Rajk appreciates your using him in this way.
You're still pretending not to understand what you are being called out for.
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by SuzianneFraming your own hypocrisy as an "opportunity" for criticism by others is probably as close as you'll come to admitting it. 😉
I'm not "pretending" anything. I'm "telling" you that your opinion means nothing to me. You're just taking advantage of an open opportunity. I'm sure Rajk appreciates your using him in this way.
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by sonshipThe very same 1 John 3 passage which you quoted does not support your doctrine:Grace does not give a Christian the licence to continue on sinning after he has known of Christ.
The reason why we have to come to God and confess that we cannot make it to keep His law is because it is the SEED that He plants within that is sinless.
We therefore have no confidence in ANYTHING except this Divine seed of divine life ...[text shortened]... the grace of the Lord is with his spirit.
It is to the SEED that we must give utmost HEED!
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9 KJV)
The passage says:
1. If you are in Christ you do not sin
2. if you sin you did not see Christ
3. if you sin you do not know Christ
4. if you do righteous things you are righteous
5. if you sin you are of the devil
6. if you are born of God you do not sin
John enlarges on #3 :about knowing God or Christ - knowing God is about following the commandments of Christ
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)
John also enlarges on what the love of God means:
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
So to know God or Christ is to keep his commandments.
If the love of God is within someone, then that love is demonstrated by the charitable works which is done to others.
All of that which John says is very far from the doctrine of Witness Lee with you spread around here.
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20 Jun 15
Originally posted by FMFProduce names and quotes proving that there are any Christians in this forum that say grace is a license to sin and I will confront them.
I can't remember you ever confronting any of the Christians here who do think that.
In the mean time I'll just have to be content to confront you on your duplicity.
Originally posted by FMFActually it is in God's mind, and subsequently in mine, that you see the world through the mind of God.
And you rely on [b]your own mind to assert, to me, that you see the world through the mind of God. Doing so does not absolve you of your hypocritical comment to Rajk999.[/b]
You just don't get it do you? To busy to hear God aren't you? Just put the "God figure" over on the shelf and forget about Him.
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by Rajk999So what you're say is that I have lost my salvation. Right?
Thats just playing with words. I use the expression 'licence to sin', and you all say 'not even God can take away my eternal life even though I sin over and over'. That is the height of arrogance by the way.
According to Peter here is the end result of this type of Christian:
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the kn ...[text shortened]... have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
Romans 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What sins did Jesus not die on the cross for Rajk? All of them? Or just certain ones? Just past sins and not future sins?
Are you one of those "types" of Christians that think they stopped sinning when you got saved?
Originally posted by josephwSo you believe that grace is a licence to sin, just that you are not using the phrase 'licence to sin". Instead you are trying to play with words.
So what you're say is that I have lost my salvation. Right?
Romans 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What sins d ...[text shortened]...
Are you one of those "types" of Christians that think they stopped sinning when you got saved?
You and many others here believe that you cannot lose your salvation when then bible says in no uncertain terms that YOU CAN AND YOU WILL .. if you continue with sin.
Here is another one:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Grace WILL NOT CONTINUE TO SAVE YOU.
And your Romans 8 passage is of no relevance here. You are grasping at straws because you know that your doctrine is not supported in the Bible, while I continue to post clear evidince from Peter and Paul and John you flounder around on shaky ground quoting irrelevant passages.
Romans 8 says that none of those things will separate us from Christ BUT SIN CAN AND WILL SEPARATE ANYONE FROM GOD OR CHRIST.
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. (Isaiah 59:2-3 KJV)
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by Rajk9991 John 1:8-10 through 1 John 2:1
The very same 1 John 3 passage which you quoted does not support your doctrine:
[i]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the b ...[text shortened]... h John says is very far from the doctrine of Witness Lee with you spread around here.
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If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
You need to get the whole context Rajk. If a man sins we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ, who paid our whole sin debt in full.
You have a warped understanding of what salvation is if you think you can out sin God's grace and the power of the blood of Christ to wash away all our sin. And what is even more disturbing is your inference that you never sin.
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Then you're as doomed as the rest of us.
So you believe that grace is a licence to sin, just that you are not using the phrase 'licence to sin". Instead you are trying to play with words.
You and many others here believe that you cannot lose your salvation when then bible says in no uncertain terms that YOU CAN AND YOU WILL .. if you continue with sin.
Here is another one:
[b]Heb 10:26 F ...[text shortened]... truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Grace WILL NOT CONTINUE TO SAVE YOU.[/b]
20 Jun 15
Originally posted by josephwWell we are getting somewhere. Its a matter of degree then. While some sin is tolerated, there comes a point when sin becomes too much and there remains no more sacrifice for sins... according to Peter.
1 John 1:8-10 through 1 John 2:1
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
My little children, these things write I un ...[text shortened]... away [b]all our sin. And what is even more disturbing is your inference that you never sin.[/b]
Or are you ignoring parts of the Bible.
I accept all parts. Yes Christ died for sins, Yes people sin and Yes sin can cause people to lose their salvation. Yes to all of that. You are not accepting the last part about losing their salvation when the Bible is clear on that as well.