21 Jun 15
Originally posted by sonshipThe difference between us is simply that you focus on talk while I focus on action. Here is more of John:
[b] To abide in Christ is to follow his commandments.
Following Christ commandments keeps the believer free from sin.
If someone claims to believe in Christ but does not follow his commandments then that believer is NOT ABIDING IN CHRIST.
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I think you're missing ...[text shortened]... eavenly Father is perfect?
Of course you cannot without dependence on the LIFE of the Father.[/b]
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. (1 John 3:17-24 KJV)
I summarise:
Love [meaning charitable love] is not just a word but something to do.
That is how you know if you are of the truth or in Christ.
God will grant your wishes because we keep his commandments and our actions please him
Those who keep Christ commandments, those followers dwell with Christ and Christ in them.
Originally posted by josephwWell I wouldn't be pressing you for a proper answer if it was. The problem is, in a rather Dasa-esque way, you use a kind of clumsy I see the world through the mind of God so I am right 'debating point' all the time. But Christians believe different things. Christians disagree.
The answer to your question is there.
Christians disagree about the Trinity; they disagree about allegories and literalism; they disagree about good works; they disagree about the nature of salvation and damnation; they disagree about the so called Once Saved Always Saved theology; they disagree about eternal torture as the vengeful punishment of God ~ sonship cites it as part of God's "glory", for example, while you declared the notion to be "repulsive. Christians disagree about things.
Bearing this in mind, how can you say things like "...it is in God's mind, and subsequently in mine, that you see the world through the mind of God". How can you claim that your opinions are somehow validated by God ~ literally "...that you see the world through the mind of God" ~ when you know full well that Christians disagree about fundamental things.
21 Jun 15
Originally posted by FMF"Well I wouldn't be pressing you for a proper answer if it was."
Well I wouldn't be pressing you for a proper answer if it was. The problem is, in a rather Dasa-esque way, you use a kind of clumsy I see the world through the mind of God so I am right 'debating point' all the time. But Christians believe different things. Christians disagree.
Christians disagree about the Trinity; they disagree about allegories and ...[text shortened]... gh the mind of God" ~ when you know full well that Christians disagree about fundamental things.
Could it be that the answer is there, but that you simply can't reconcile it with the overwhelming cloud of contradictions that plague your thoughts?
When you use bias laden jargon such as "Dasa-esque" and "God figure", you force me to believe you've already formed in your mind the answers to your questions, leading me to believe that nothing I say will matter to you or make any difference.
You need to start with the basic premise that God is infallible if you expect to even begin to understand the answers to your questions. And the only way to know that God is infallible is to believe God when and because He says so.
That's your first hurdle. Get over that or we'll be arguing all day.
Originally posted by josephwMy question is: how can you say things like "...it is in God's mind, and subsequently in mine, that you see the world through the mind of God", when you know that Christians disagree about things, often quite fundamentally? How is you now saying "God is infallible" an answer to this?
You need to start with the basic premise that God is infallible if you expect to even begin to understand the answers to your questions.
21 Jun 15
Originally posted by FMFWhat I'm say when I say "God is infallible" is that when we agree with God is when we are in unity, both with God and with each other.
My question is: how can you say things like "...it is in God's mind, and subsequently in mine, that you see the world through the mind of God", when you know that Christians disagree about things, often quite fundamentally? How is you now saying "God is infallible" an answer to this?
Therefore, when Christians disagree with each other, one may be right and the other wrong, or both can be wrong, but both can't be right!
For example; Jesus said He would rise again after His death. The one that agrees with Jesus has his mind fixed in the mind of God on that point, but the one that disagrees with what Jesus said concerning His resurrection is disunited with the mind of God.
God is infallible, man isn't. Only when we are in agreement with God can it be said that we "have the mind of Christ".
Agreeing with God means we have the mind of Christ, which subsequently means we know that God is infallible. The knowledge of the infallibility of God is rooted in the knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ, without which one will never know it.
22 Jun 15
Originally posted by josephwSo why do you claim you see the world through the mind of your infallible God, when you know that there are many Christians who disagree with you about key things? Do those Christians who disagree with you also see the world through the mind of your infallible God figure?
What I'm say when I say "God is infallible" is that when we agree with God is when we are in unity, both with God and with each other.
Therefore, when Christians disagree with each other, one may be right and the other wrong, or both can be wrong, but both can't be right!
For example; Jesus said He would rise again after His death. The one that agrees ...[text shortened]... of God is rooted in the knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ, without which one will never know it.
22 Jun 15
Originally posted by josephwWell. OK. What about you yourself?
Produce names and quotes proving that there are any Christians in this forum that say grace is a license to sin and I will confront them.
You have said: "The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire."
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Originally posted by josephwAgreeing with God means we have the mind of Christ, which subsequently means we know that God is infallible. The knowledge of the infallibility of God is rooted in the knowledge of His Son Jesus Christ, without which one will never know it.
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My taking up this point will sound a little forced toward my OP.
Some of the best spiritual advise I ever received that really helped me, was to pray with the Word of God and "AMEN" everything it says.
I was helped to take in the Bible saying Amen! to everything I read. The brothers that helped me didn't claim infallibility. But they claimed that every scripture is God breathed and profitable (2 Time. 3:16).
I have not met any very good teacher of the Bible who claimed for him or herself infallibility. But I got much help in reading the Bible by learning to go first after the nourishment to my spirit.
Two brothers who do not see the meaning of a passage exactly the same way, can still be in oneness. That is if both confess that with the passage they are brought to the living Lord Jesus. He is the Head into Whom all the parts of the Body are growing.
" ... holding the Head, "
That's a Living Head. That is a living Person.
Holding the Head, holding the Head, holding the Head.
Now let me write the rest of the passage:
" ... holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, grows with the growth of God." (Col. 2:19)
To make the verse positive, I omitted "And not ..." in "And not holding the Head ...".
Okay, I can hear some critic saying "But you said every word."
Okay -
"And not holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, grows with the growth of God."
Let me compare this matter of "holding the Head" with sister verse in Ephesians which speaks of "holding to truth in love".
" But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ,
Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (Eph. 4:15,16)
For length's sake I will stop writing. I am not finished yet.
But the point is that we can learn in the church life, that we can hold to the living Person, the Head, and be growing in life for the building up of His Body the church, even though we have different understandings of some passages.
Please look at the verse just preceding the one I quoted. -
"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
That we no longer be little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the slight of men, in crafiness with a view to a system of error." (vs.13,14)
Two Christians will may come across passages that they interpret differently. We can hold to the truth in love and hold the living Head, Christ by praying over the word. We can receiving every part as nourishment for growth by praying with an "Amen!" ... which kind of means "So Be It".
There is that living Person, the living and uniting God in every passage of the Bible. If our heart is turned towards God as the living Person, God will cause us to grow and God will lead us.
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22 Jun 15
Rajk999, you don't like long posts and you think everything to explain the Bible should be in few and simple words.
Say a few words about what the Christian's attitude should be towards the Law of Moses. How should we Christians think about the law.
Provide a few references please.
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23 Jun 15
From Life Study of Exodus by Witness Lee, Msg. 64,
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n
III. SEPARATED FROM THE LIVING GOD
AS THE SOURCE OF LIFE,
THE LAW BECOMING THE CONDEMNING
AND KILLING ELEMENT TO A SINFUL PERSON
Whenever the law is separated from the living God as the source of life, it becomes the condemning and killing element to sinful people (Rom. 7:13, 11). To separate the law from God Himself is to be in the “night” with respect to the law. If we rise up to attempt to keep the law of God, we shall automatically separate the law from God Himself. Then in our efforts to keep the law, we ourselves shall be separated from Him. As a result, the law will become letters which kill us. We shall be like the children of Israel at the bottom of Mount Sinai. Simply by saying they would do whatever the Lord required, they separated themselves from God, the source of life. Then the law became in their experience a killing element.
IV. THE CASE OF THE JUDAIZERS
The case of the Judaizers exemplifies the fact that the law becomes killing letters when it is separated from the living God. The Judaizers loved the law and were zealous to keep it. But their love and zeal were apart from God. In John 5:39 and 40 the Lord Jesus said, “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that testify concerning Me; and you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” The Judaizers thought that there was life in the black and white letters of the Scriptures. However, to come to the Scriptures without coming to the Lord Himself may even be superstitious.
Many Christians use the Bible in a superstitious way, thinking that the Scriptures can actually protect them. Feeling that something evil may happen during the night, some put a Bible underneath their pillow. This is superstitious. Others think that if a person places his hand on the Bible when taking an oath, it will not be possible for him to lie. This also is superstitious.
In the black and white letters of the Bible there is no life. We cannot receive life from the Word if we come to it without coming to the Lord. In order to receive life from the Word, we must contact the Lord as we read it. Life actually is not in the Bible itself; it is in Christ. For this reason, we should never separate the Bible from the Lord Himself. The Bible is intended to be the tree of life. But if we separate it from the Lord as the fountain of life, it will become to us the tree of knowledge. Whether the Bible is the tree of life or the tree of knowledge to us depends on our condition and our standing. If we stand one with the Lord, the Bible will be life to us. But if we separate ourselves from the Lord and still attempt to use the Bible, it will become the tree of knowledge to us. Whenever we stand apart from the Lord in using the Word, the Bible becomes killing letters. Thus, if we stand with the Lord in reading the Word, we shall be in the “day.” But if we stand apart from Him, we shall be in the “night.”
Originally posted by FMFThere you go ... thats a licence to sin. Im quite sure some Christians would not abuse the privilege and live righteously according to the teachings of Christ, But all of them ? Nah !
Yes. Verbatim: [b]"The only possibility that I would be cast into the lake of fire is if Jesus Christ Himself were to be cast into the lake of fire."[/b]
23 Jun 15
Originally posted by sonshipPauls words are simple
Rajk999, you don't like long posts and you think everything to explain the Bible should be in few and simple words.
Say a few words about what the Christian's attitude should be towards the Law of Moses. How should we Christians think about the law.
Provide a few references please.
Gal 3 and Heb 9.
There is no law of Moses for the follower of Christ.
There is only the Doctrine of Christ.