Originally posted by @tom-wolsey Annihilation is an official doctrine and there are verses to support it. I've already said. I'm not sold 100% either way. Annihilation makes more sense to me. If I had to go with what I want to believe, it would be that. Whether I adhere to eternal torture or annihilation, it has no bearing on my salvation. So I don't feel pressed to pick one.
I disagree I believe it is very clear salvation and damnation are both eternal. It is a matter of what scripture says not what we find acceptable or not.
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey Annihilation is an official doctrine and there are verses to support it. I've already said. I'm not sold 100% either way. Annihilation makes more sense to me. If I had to go with what I want to believe, it would be that. Whether I adhere to eternal torture or annihilation, it has no bearing on my salvation. So I don't feel pressed to pick one.
Atheists believe we all simply die. Annihilation doctrine has it that atheists simply die. What makes you think your annihilation doctrine would make atheists believe in supernatural beings and phenomena and want to "praise" your god figure? You have claimed you've spent 20 years talking to atheists. I don't think you have.
Originally posted by @kellyjay I disagree I believe it is very clear salvation and damnation are both eternal. It is a matter of what scripture says not what we find acceptable or not.
Brother you can look it up, there is a case for annihilation, through Scripture. I admitted what my person feelings are, but I wouldn't even entertain a doctrine if it didn't at least have some Scriptural support.
Originally posted by @kellyjay I disagree I believe it is very clear salvation and damnation are both eternal. It is a matter of what scripture says not what we find acceptable or not.
I once asked you to provide evidence that the bible says that the soul of man is eternal [which you claimed] and you provided none. So I take it you cannot do that.
In support of the opposite case I quoted Matt 10:28 where Jesus says to fear God who can destroy [not torment] both body and soul. Your response to that was pretty infantile. You said that not because Jesus said it means it was going to happen. Had a good laugh at your ability to reason and to think outside of your church doctrine
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey Brother you can look it up, there is a case for annihilation, through Scripture. I admitted what my person feelings are, but I wouldn't even entertain a doctrine if it didn't at least have some Scriptural support.
It doesn’t line up with other scripture so it doesn’t stand up to good doctrine standards.
Originally posted by @divegeester You are coming across as another angry militant Christian who is unable to adequately and coherently discuss their beliefs because they haven’t thought through the consequences of them.
One thing is for certain, FMF ruffles feathers, he has ruffled your feathers. He is surgeon-like in his sometimes relentless persuit of the truth of a matter or a fo ...[text shortened]... iour in here at times. But your remarks about him just sound like the ruffling of your feathers.
I'll say this, you kiss ass with the worst of them.
Originally posted by @apathist I want to hear you advocate [b]against eternal torture for the thoughts in your head. Because christianity says believe or suffer forever. This can't be news for you, so you are lying and pretending.[/b]
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey Annihilation is an official doctrine and there are verses to support it. I've already said. I'm not sold 100% either way. Annihilation makes more sense to me. If I had to go with what I want to believe, it would be that. Whether I adhere to eternal torture or annihilation, it has no bearing on my salvation. So I don't feel pressed to pick one.
This is never mentioned enough in this forum.
What happens if one fails Judgement cannot be nearly as important as making sure that one does not fail Judgement.
All the rest of the arguing here is inconsequential when examined under this light.
Originally posted by @kellyjay It doesn’t line up with other scripture so it doesn’t stand up to good doctrine standards.
We could have a polite debate in an official thread if you want. But I don't want a wedge driven between us. I have looked deeply and examined all the Scriptures that support both sides of the issue. While I admit I am personally biased in favor of annihilationism, I looked at it objectively and came away less than 100% convinced one way or the other. Because I know the issue is not of primary concern as relates to salvation, I don't feel pressed to force myself to decide. Still, I would welcome an open, honest discussion. Though let's face it. If we did it publicly, the usual suspects would rip us both apart and not rest until the entire thread was reduced to a pile of smoldering ashes.
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey I have looked deeply and examined all the Scriptures that support both sides of the issue. While I admit I am personally biased in favor of annihilationism, I looked at it objectively and came away less than 100% convinced one way or the other. Because I know the issue is not of primary concern as relates to salvation, I don't feel pressed to force myself to decide.
The issue of whether you believe some people at the end of their earthly lives are supernaturally "saved" while others simply die, or you believe that those "others" supernaturally are tortured for eternity, is surely fundamental to the ostensible nature of your god figure. How can the fundamental moral nature of the deity you worship not be an issue of "primary concern"?
Originally posted by @fmf Atheists believe we all simply die. Annihilation doctrine has it that atheists simply die. What makes you think your annihilation doctrine would make atheists believe in supernatural beings and phenomena and want to "praise" your god figure? You have claimed you've spent 20 years talking to atheists. I don't think you have.
I don't know about Tom, but I sincerely can't be bothered to give even half a rat's ass if 'annihilation doctrine' would make atheists believe in "supernatural beings and phenomena" or not, or want to "praise" my God or not. I don't believe or disbelieve ANY doctrine based on what atheists think of it. What makes you think this is a moving concern for us?
Originally posted by @suzianne I don't know about Tom, but I sincerely can't be bothered to give even half a rat's ass if 'annihilation doctrine' would make atheists believe in "supernatural beings and phenomena" or not, or want to "praise" my God or not. I don't believe or disbelieve ANY doctrine based on what atheists think of it. What makes you think this is a moving concern for us?
Thanks.
My intention was not to evangelize. I just happen to be interested in what atheists think and believe.
Originally posted by @suzianne I don't know about Tom, but I sincerely can't be bothered to give even half a rat's ass if 'annihilation doctrine' would make atheists believe in "supernatural beings and phenomena" or not, or want to "praise" my God or not. I don't believe or disbelieve ANY doctrine based on what atheists think of it. What makes you think this is a moving concern for us?
Tom Wolsey started a thread about it. And if you really think the discussion is about whether Christians should believe or disbelieve any doctrine based on what atheists think of it, then you have completely got the wrong end of the stick.
god is evil
18 Jul '18 14:05
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