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Here is an interseting take...
The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest
Vol: 47 Issue: 13 - Saturday, August 13, 2005
Special Report: Why Does Evil Exist?
One of the principle objections offered by Bible skeptics is that if there were a loving and all-powerful God, then, why is the world such an evil place?
There is no doubt that evil exists. In fact, evil is the default state of humanity. (Babies have to be taught not to bite, after all.) Did God create evil?
God is both loving and all-powerful. Despite this, He seems unwilling or incapable of preventing the vast amount of evil and suffering in this world.
The skeptic argues that either God is not loving or all powerful, or that He does not exist at all, because if He DID exist, then does He allow so much evil to exist?
The simple fact is, the universe is created in a balance. In order for there to be darkness, there must first be light. Darkness is a measure of the absence of light. Without the prior existence of light, darkness could not exist.
In order for there to be cold, there must first be heat. Cold is a measure of the absence of heat. Without heat, cold could not exist. Evil is a measure of the absence of good. Without good, evil could not exist.
Evil is not a creation of God, since it cannot exist outside of the creation of good. But it does exist, because good exists.
Think of it like a battery. It takes both the positive and negative poles to create power. Good would have no power to effect change without evil, just as evil has no existence without good.
How could one choose good if there were no evil against which to measure it?
In His creation, God never pronounced the universe 'perfect' -- He found some of His creation to be 'good' some of it to be 'very good' and even some of it that He pronounced, 'not good'.
"The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." (Genesis 2:18)
Both the Bible and science tell us this present universe was designed to be temporary. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics proves there is not enough matter in the universe to cause to contract.
That means the universe will continue to expand indefinitely and all the stars will eventually burn out and life would not be possible for the entire rest of the history of the universe.
The Bible says the universe was designed to be temporary, and it will eventually be replaced by a perfect universe that will be permanent. Why would God create a temporary universe instead of creating a perfect, permanent one in the first place?
God created the universe as it exists for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to choose to have fellowship with Him, or to reject Him. Those who choose to have fellowship with Him will do so in some future, perfect creation.
And if His purpose is to have free-will fellowship in some future creation, then there must also exist some means by which these spiritual beings can make a choice whether or not to enter into this relationship with Him.
". . . I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth." (Genesis 8:21)
The Bible tells us that humanity is desperately wicked and sinful (Romans 3:10-18,23). God allows human beings to commit sin because if He were to prevent it, the human race would not truly be free.
The Apostle Paul outlines God's fourteen-point indictment against the human race;
1. There is none righteous, no, not one.
2. There is none that understandeth,
3. there is none that seeketh after God.
4. They are all gone out of the way,
5. they are together become unprofitable;
6. there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
7. Their throat is an open sepulchre;
8. with their tongues they have used deceit;
9. the poison of asps is under their lips:
10. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
11. Their feet are swift to shed blood:
12. Destruction and misery are in their ways:
13. And the way of peace have they not known:
14. There is no fear of God before their eyes. (Romans 3:10-18)
It takes an incredible capacity for self-deception for one not to see themselves mirrored in that list. Think back to before you were saved. That is the condition of every lost person you meet.
Paul goes on to point out that " all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God," (3:23) but that there is an offer extended to us to be "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." (3:24)
"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (3:27-28)
So God allows evil to exist in order to allow free will to exist. The Scriptures tell us that God is the Creator and the source of all good, and it reveals that, during this present dispensation, Satan is the god of this world and the source of all evil.
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2nd Corinthians 4:4)
Much of the suffering that exists in this world is a direct result of evil choices made by free-will human beings that impact others. Natural disasters -- hurricanes, volcanoes, etc., are part of the cycle of power required by this imperfect universe in order for it to exist in balance.
In the new creation, there will be some limits on our free will, since the new creation will not contain evil. We exist in this life to give us a chance to agree to give up some of that free will in the next. That is what it means to turn one's life and will over to Jesus Christ. It is a choice to surrender our will to God.
"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed." (1 Peter 1:6-7)
Those who refuse the opportunity in this life will not be forced to in the next life, but will instead exist separately from the new creation, and apart from God. The place set aside for those who reject God is the place originally prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)
Bad things happen in this universe, because that is how it is designed. No human being has in himself ever been righteous. Even Adam was not righteous: he was innocent--not knowing good and evil.
Ultimately, there is not an answer to these questions that we can fully comprehend. We, as finite human beings, can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. We look at things from an earthly perspective.
God looks at things from an eternal perspective; “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:9).
It is impossible for us finite human beings to understand the ways of an infinite God (Romans 11:33-35). Second, we must realize that God is not responsible for the wicked acts of evil men.
God had to allow the possibility of evil for us to have a true choice of whether to worship God or not. If we never had to suffer and experience evil, would we know how wonderful heaven is?
We don't know everything, but we can be confident of knowing this:
"And we know that ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)
Even the existence of evil.
from...
http://www.omegaletter.com/briefings.asp?BID=1342
Originally posted by checkbaiterHow you guys can think the religious doctrine you follow is monotheistic is beyond rational explanation.
Here is an interseting take...
The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest
Vol: 47 Issue: 13 - Saturday, August 13, 2005
Special Report: Why Does Evil Exist?
One of the principle objections offered by Bible skeptics is that if there were a loving and all-powerful God, then, why is the world such an evil place?
There is no doubt that evil exists. In ...[text shortened]...
Even the existence of evil.
from...
http://www.omegaletter.com/briefings.asp?BID=1342
Originally posted by lucifershammerA common misconception. If this were really true, then predominantly athiest countries would rape, murder and pillage to their heart's content, and strike down all laws forbidding it. In other words, people don't need to believe in god to have a moral code.
They don't just want to blame God for all evils, they want to do away with Him altogether. That way, they don't have to worry about actions being "evil"; they can do away with guilt.
Originally posted by KellyJaythat wasn't aimed at the trinity as that still is under the term monotheism., however , the belief in the existence of any lesser gods is polytheism and that includes any other independantly intelligent supernatural force believed to have "powers".
I don't believe my belief is beyond rational explanation, it may not
be acceptable to you.
Kelly
Originally posted by frogstompI would guess that the being named Lucifer easily predates mankind. The name Lucifer by far predates anything of the Sumerian language although we may have the name through that language.
That's still polytheism even if the name Lucifer didn't originate as the Sumerian word Lukur (enemy).
Originally posted by gambit3a "being" with the attributes that Lucifer is said to have is a textbook example of what a demi-god is in polytheism.
I would guess that the being named Lucifer easily predates mankind. The name Lucifer by far predates anything of the Sumerian language although we may have the name through that language.
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Originally posted by BigDoggProblemThe key word here is predominantly...there are some believers even in these nations...But as the article above states, (The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest ) evil cannot exist without good and visa versa, at least in this world.
A common misconception. If this were really true, then predominantly athiest countries would rape, murder and pillage to their heart's content, and strike down all laws forbidding it. In other words, people don't need to believe in god to have a moral code.
"
The simple fact is, the universe is created in a balance. In order for there to be darkness, there must first be light. Darkness is a measure of the absence of light. Without the prior existence of light, darkness could not exist.
In order for there to be cold, there must first be heat. Cold is a measure of the absence of heat. Without heat, cold could not exist. Evil is a measure of the absence of good. Without good, evil could not exist."
Originally posted by frogstompI believe that is why we use 'G' in God, and 'g' in gods. There can be
that wasn't aimed at the trinity as that still is under the term monotheism., however , the belief in the existence of any lesser gods is polytheism and that includes any other independantly intelligent supernatural force believed to have "powers".
several gods so called, but only one God.
Kelly
God is both good and evil or neither.
We don't need a spook like satan to explain evil.
Isn't there a saying, "Eliminate the middle man"?
In the garden of eden, god puts the forbidden tree in the middlle of it. God allows the serpent to operate. Who is really the tempter?
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This will make you stop and think for a while.
At the first class of every semester at a certain college there was a professor with a reputation for being somewhat tough on people of most all faiths, but he was particularly hard on Christians. He believed that people who believed in the One God, the God of Abraham and Issac and Jacob were following students of unsound philosophy, and that the concept of believing in a Messiah was bad philosophy on top of unsound philosophy. He would ask if anyone was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of faith with two certain questions.
One semester, he asked the questions and a young man raised his hand. The professor asked, "Do you believe in the existence of God?". The young man replied without hesitating, "Yes!". The the professor asked, "Did God make everything young man?"
He replied "Yes sir, He did!"
The professor responded, "If God does exist and He made everything, then He made evil!"
The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to once again have proved the Christian faith to be a myth of contradictions. Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"
"Yes, you may," responded the professor.
The young man stood up and said, "Sir, is there such a thing as cold?"
"Of course there is, what kind of a question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"
The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist. What we consider to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not present."
The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?"
Once again the professor responded, "Of course there is."
And once again, the student replied, "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist, either. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is just a term developed to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such a thing as evil?"
The professor responded, "Of course, we have rapes, murders and violence everywhere in the world. Those things are evil."
The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil, in the same way, can be said to not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term we humans have developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth or love which, exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state of existence where God is not present, like cold without heat, or darkness without light."
The professor shot back and said, "According to your own beliefs, God created Lucifer! Therefore He did create evil!"
The student thought for a moment and then replied, "True, God may have created Lucifer, but He did not create evil. He created Lucifer with free choice, just as we ourselves have been created with free choice. Lucifer, whom we now refer to as Satan, was created by God, but not as an evil being. God does not create anything evil. Lucifer was created, like all of God's created creatures, with a purpose and that purpose was to accomplish GOOD, not evil. Lucifer chose for himself to not allow God to be present in him, and to not dwell in God's presence at all, thus he chose to enter into a state where not only was God totally absent but His influence had no effect.
Lucifer freely chose to no longer allow God to be present in his own personal life, or to have any bearing on his decisions or actions. God's absence in all the decisions and actions of Lucifer is much like the heat/cold, and darkness/light analogy we just discussed. Evil is very simply the state where God is not present.
Evil does not really exist as a created thing, it is just a term we use to describe the absence of God.
When we choose to have God absent from our own lives, as Lucifer did, we are choosing to live in a state of being where God is not present.
Everyone of those crimes committed you mentioned are a direct result of a person who chose to not let God be present in their life, and since God was not present, He had no bearing on their choices.
In His absence, these things and more happen, in His presence, they do not. Truly then, evil is simply the state where God is not present, a state of being much akin to the analogy of cold without heat, or the analogy of darkness without light.
When we are saying something is evil, what we are really saying is that God was absent, that He was not allowed to be present in that decision or that action...or that a decision or action was devoid of any Godly virtue. People who allow God to be present in their lives do not make those kinds of choices or commit those kinds of actions. People who do not allow God to be present in their lives, do.
So professor, evil is truly and very simply the state where God is not present. God did not create evil, it is the state of being that takes place as a result of His absence. God is sovereign and ultimately in control of everything that happens. Satan cannot do anything unless he has God's "permission". God did not create evil, but He allows evil, because He allows us free choice. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply do what He wanted them to do because of their "programming". God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether we wanted to serve Him or not, and whether or not we want to have a relationship with Him.
Now, Professor, with your permission, I would like to anticipate your next question. How can an omnipotent/omnipresent God be NOT present?"
The professor laughed with enthusiasm at the young man's quick mind and agreed, that was his next question.
The student replied, "We, as finite human beings, can never fully understand an infinite God. Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from an eternal perspective, seeing the whole picture if you will. We look at things from an earthly perspective, seeing a much more limited picture. We are kind of in the box looking out, and God is outside of the box seeing everything both inside and outside the box. We can ask why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring about the state of separation of mankind from God, which is also the cause of evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all, without free will, and leave us in Heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? The best answer I can come up with for you is this: God didn’t want then, and still does not want today, a race of robots, or slaves if you will, who don't have a free will. He wants to fellowship with a people who freely choose Him. God had to allow the possibility of the "state of evil" for us, just as he did for Lucifer, to have a true choice of whether to worship God or not. If we never had to suffer and experience evil, would we truly know how wonderful dwelling in His presence is? God did not create evil, but He did allow for it. If He hadn’t allowed us the freedom to choose to between dwelling in His presence or dwelling outside of His presence, then we would be worshipping Him out of obligation, not out of geuine desire and love and respect.
For there to be total free will for us to choose to not be in His presence is sometimes a hard thing to understand, but I think the best way to explain it is like this: He is truly everywhere and knows everything. Yet, He allows us to be independent of Him, making Him in essence not existence in our lives. He is then much like a spectator, and as such sees the terrible things we do to ourselves as well as each other. At the same time, I kind of see Him as following His own Prime Directive...", at this point the class and the professor, as well as the student himself, enjoyed a chuckle, "...He will not violate it against our own individual wills...He will not supernaturally interfere in things everytime time we make a bad choice just because our decisions don't line up with His mandates. Not yet, anyway. He has told us that we, mankind, have a pre-determined amount of time on this earth before He sets about rectifying the state of separation that has allowed evil to exist.
Let me share something else with you in regards to something written in Isaiah 45:5-7, which you sir, may be familiar with. I am aware that most modern translations, as well as the ancient Hebrew texts, state that God declares Himself that He created evil, as well as peace. Any serious student of language is aware of the fact that words are flexible, sometimes even flimsy, vehicles of communication. This principle is no less true of the Bible than it is of any other piece of literature.
Beginning in the previous chapter, Isaiah 44 and continuing into Isaiah 45, God was arguing the case for His sovereignty over the nations – particularly His right to deal with His chosen people, which was the nation of Israel, the Hebrews. God had blessed the nation abundantly in many wonderful ways, but His people had rejected him time and time again, giving themselves over to the worship of idols – dumb idols that had no power to bless. In this vain worship, the Hebrews had evinced an incredible lack of understanding. As a result, the kingdom of Judah was punished (during the period of Babylonian captivity). Eventually, though, God would forgive His people, and bring them back into their land again.
The providential instrument in accomplishing this momentous task would be a Persian king, who went by the n...