God vs Satan

Originally posted by Palynka
That is incorrect. Those that do not believe in God blame only the people that did it. How could they blame God if they believe He doesn't exist?

I just say that there are three possibilities by observing the world around me:
- There is no God;
- God is dead or left a long time ago;
- God is a sadist.

My common sense and skeptical nature tells me t ...[text shortened]... rnally condemn an atheist that only did good in his life? Does this sound like a reasonable God?

We can only be fairly judged for what is required of us.
We cannot for example call a storm evil, it only does what a storm
does nothing more, a lion only does what a lion does, and so on.
While people on the other hand we can and do condemn for their
actions. As far as a God blaming an atheist for being an atheist
goes, God does not have the labels we do, he is going to hold
people accountable for what they did and knew. If He holds you
accountable for not being 12 feet tall, that would be unfair and
unjust, but if He holds you accountable for telling a lie you did
tell, that is just.
Kelly

Originally posted by Palynka
Why do you think it is fair/good for Him to eternally condemn an atheist that only did good in his life? Does this sound like a reasonable God?

When you use words like "condemn" you are thinking of God as a judge, handing out Hell as a punishment to evil people.

In the Catholic conception, Hell is a state of soul inflicted by a person upon himself.

Does it sound reasonable for God to grant people the freedom and power to do that to themselves?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Does it sound reasonable for God to grant people the freedom and power to do that to themselves?

This has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't question free will.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Posted this before, no takers?

There are a couple of ways God could deal with evil.
1. Not allow any to act out anything that is evil, so diminishes free will.
2. Create the universe and punish those that are about to do evil,
before it is done to make sure it never occurs.
3. Create the universe allow evil to manifest itself, deal directory with ...[text shortened]... e allowed to survive and what should not.
5. Fill in anything I didn't think of here.
Kelly

how about

6. limiting evil to actions that dont cause pain and suffering.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We can only be fairly judged for what is required of us.
We cannot for example call a storm evil, it only does what a storm
does nothing more, a lion only does what a lion does, and so on.
While people on the other hand we can and do condemn for their
actions. As far as a God blaming an atheist for being an atheist
goes, God does not have the labels we ...[text shortened]... d
unjust, but if He holds you accountable for telling a lie you did
tell, that is just.
Kelly

we find common ground at long last.

Originally posted by Palynka
This has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't question free will.

What was your question about, then?

Whether a person "goes" to Hell or not depends on the state of his soul at the time of his death. If he's in mortal sin, he does.

An atheist who denies God is not necessarily in mortal sin (there might be mitigating circumstances). But an atheist who knowingly and wilfully disowns God has, IMO, placed his soul in a state of complete separation from God. No amount of "good acts" will let him buy his way back.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
What was your question about, then?

Whether a person "goes" to Hell or not depends on the state of his soul at the time of his death. If he's in mortal sin, he does.

An atheist who denies God is not necessarily in mortal sin (there might be mitigating circumstances). But an atheist who knowingly and wilfully disowns God has, IMO, placed his s ...[text shortened]... state of complete separation from God. No amount of "good acts" will let him buy his way back.

Assuming there is a God:

My question was on the lines of what is "knowingly and wilfully". And why would a theist that sits at home all day and does no evil but also little good be accepted by God and someone that does an impressive ammount of good and no evil would not? Sounds to me that your God attributes free-will to Man so that they can kneel and worship him. With free-will, of course, but with their head on the guillotine.

Most weak atheists are atheists because they can't "knowingly" accept God, since there is no evidence. Is there a thing as an atheist that "knowingly and wilfully" denies God?

Originally posted by frogstomp
why do you insist on making God look foolish?

How so?

Originally posted by rwingett
Checkbaiter was made in his god's image.

Weren't we all...

Originally posted by frogstomp
how about

6. limiting evil to actions that dont cause pain and suffering.

why?
Kelly

Originally posted by Palynka
Assuming there is a God:

My question was on the lines of what is "knowingly and wilfully". And why would a theist that sits at home all day and does no evil but also little good be accepted by God and someone that does an impressive ammount of good and no evil would not? Sounds to me that your God attributes free-will to Man so that they can kneel and w ...[text shortened]... there is no evidence. Is there a thing as an atheist that "knowingly and wilfully" denies God?

You cannot say there is no evidience, you can say you do not accept
the evidience (all that is around you) that it shows you there is a
God. Evidience in a court is discussed by both sides of in a trial, saying
you reject certain things does not mean that they are not evidience
only that you do not believe what people are saying about them.
If we talk about things that no one has an answer for, can you say
that God may have do it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending
on what is it we are discussing! If I tell you there is an eternal God
that created everything by the power of His Word, what would you
look for as evidience? What would you think you'd see?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You cannot say there is no evidience, you can say you do not accept
the evidience (all that is around you) that it shows you there is a
God. Evidience in a court is discussed by both sides of in a trial, saying
you reject certain things does not mean that they are not evidience
only that you do not believe what people are saying about them.
If we talk ...[text shortened]... ower of His Word, what would you
look for as evidience? What would you think you'd see?
Kelly

If I don't accept what you present as evidence, then for me there is no evidence.

If we talk about things that no one has an answer for, can you say
that God may have do it?
I think we should say that we don't know. If it is important, we should seek to try and find an answer. You present a God-by-default type of argument, which is unconvincing to me.

If I tell you there is an eternal God that created everything by the power of His Word, what would you look for as evidience?
If you tell me that, than you should be the one providing the evidence for your claims. If I said that a Spaghetti Monster created the universe, shouldn't by I the one that had to support this claim?

Originally posted by Palynka
If I don't accept what you present as evidence, then for me there is no evidence.

[b]If we talk about things that no one has an answer for, can you say
that God may have do it?
I think we should say that we don't know. If it is important, we should seek to try and find an answer. You present a God-by-default type of argument, which is unconvincing ...[text shortened]... Spaghetti Monster created the universe, shouldn't by I the one that had to support this claim?[/b]

We can show someone a car in their living room and they can still
deny it. It is what you know that is going to matter in the end and
those things have a way of working themselves out in people's
lives where they reveal what they know through the things they
say and do.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
We can show someone a car in their living room and they can still
deny it. It is what you know that is going to matter in the end and
those things have a way of working themselves out in people's
lives where they reveal what they know through the things they
say and do.
Kelly

But what do you have as evidence and, more importantly, how does it point to the existence of God?

I'm not playing the question game, but this is the key here. You see/feel God in some things that I don't. That is why I claim that I see/feel no evidence.

Originally posted by Palynka
But what do you have as evidence and, more importantly, how does it point to the existence of God?

I'm not playing the question game, but this is the key here. You see/feel God in some things that I don't. That is why I claim that I see/feel no evidence.

The evidence is all around you; however, I'll start asking God to give
you eyes to see it if you'd like? We can go around and around in
circles saying this is evidence for this or that, and completely disagree
with one another. The source is God for all the answers, I cannot
prove God is real, only God can do that.
Kelly