Good sci-fi is about the present

@kellyjay said
You will have no excuse,

Sounds ominous.

@fmf said
Sounds ominous.

Nothing more than has already been said here many times about what we do and say. We will all give an account for the things said and done. We cannot say we didn't know and understand when we say we know and understand.

@kellyjay said
We cannot say we didn't know and understand when we say we know and understand.

You believe you have given me fair and credible warning about some "hard facts"?

@fmf said
You believe you have given me fair and credible warning about some "hard facts"?

Well, you seem to be stuck, unable to look past your nose, and the reality you live in isn't set up to serve your wants, desires, and even your sense of right and wrong. Subjective judgments all revolve around you, your likes, dislikes, how you measure this or that, how much weight you give this and not that. While the objects, be they a text or person, stand apart from your views and, regardless of how you think about the object, will be what it is even if you find it distasteful. Objective truth isn't governed by our subjective notions and assertions. As we can misjudge things in this life, erroring in the reasons for being here and what is to come has dire consequences.

@kellyjay said
Well, you seem to be stuck, unable to look past your nose, and the reality you live in isn't set up to serve your wants, desires, and even your sense of right and wrong. Subjective judgments all revolve around you, your likes, dislikes, how you measure this or that, how much weight you give this and not that. While the objects, be they a text or person, stand apart from your ...[text shortened]... d, regardless of how you think about the object, will be what it is even if you find it distasteful.

Chalk it up to "nurture". You have absorbed all this from your environment.

@kellyjay said
Objective truth isn't governed by our subjective notions and assertions.

You haven't presented any "objective truth" to me.

@kellyjay said
As we can misjudge things in this life, erroring in the reasons for being here and what is to come has dire consequences.

"Dire consequences"?

More "hard facts", KellyJay?

@fmf said
Chalk it up to "nurture". You have absorbed all this from your environment.

Chalk it up to a theory of a possible reason for morals. When speaking about morals, all nurture is one possibility for explaining something that the material world has not to clue about.

@kellyjay said
When speaking about morals, all nurture is one possibility for explaining something that the material world has not to clue about.

There are two elements to how we become moral agents: "nature" and "nurture".

@fmf said
There are two elements to how we become moral agents: "nature" and "nurture".

The mechanism driving those is what, outside of design, you only have pipe dreams. Something someone thought up, nothing more another assertion between the ears of someone.

@kellyjay said
The mechanism driving those is what, outside of design, you only have pipe dreams. Something someone thought up, nothing more another assertion between the ears of someone.

You sound like you're inadvertently talking about your own religious beliefs.

"Outside of design, you only have pipe dreams"?

So says the guy who thinks his beliefs about himself will make him immortal!

@fmf said
You sound like you're inadvertently talking about your own religious beliefs.

"Outside of design, you only have pipe dreams"?

So says the guy who thinks his beliefs about himself will make him immortal!

Outside of design, all you have are fantasies, one fantasy building upon another, all of it springing from between the ears. Your nature and nurture justification is built upon a belief that dead matter somehow became alive and started evolving into something much more complex without anything caring about it, directing, without a plan or purpose. Speculation given credit as if it were a hard fact, while it is just another assertion based upon nothing witnessed, just assumed. While a designed process can produce such things, we can see that in everything we build.

@kellyjay said
Outside of design, all you have are fantasies, one fantasy building upon another, all of it springing from between the ears. Your nature and nurture justification is built upon a belief that dead matter somehow became alive and started evolving into something much more complex without anything caring about it, directing, without a plan or purpose. Speculation given credit as ...[text shortened]... t assumed. While a designed process can produce such things, we can see that in everything we build.

Your mystification and bafflement transformed into "hard facts,". I see what you did there. Thanks.

@fmf said
Your mystification and bafflement transformed into "hard facts,". I see what you did there. Thanks.

It is still something objective scripture, and nothing but a subjective theory, the whole evolution of getting to nature and nurture is all between the ears. There isn't a mechanism we can point to that shows us how it would start, just stories of what may have happened.

@kellyjay said
It is still something objective scripture, and nothing but a subjective theory, the whole evolution of getting to nature and nurture is all between the ears.

Religion is "between the ears" too, KellyJay.