Good sci-fi is about the present

@fmf said
Who told you "Matt" was there?

Maybe it was in the Gospel of Johnny or the Apostle Paulie told him?

@kellyjay said
I see you are moving into faith speech I will leave you to it.

The question "Who told you "Matt" was there?" is a question about your religious faith. It is not "faith speech" on my part. I don't have religious faith.

If the person who told you that "Matthew" was there ~ and supposedly saw countless people rising from the dead and moving into the city, or if you were told it in some other way ~ if it is a private matter, then so be it.

@fmf said
The question "Who told you "Matt" was there?" is a question about your religious faith. It is not "faith speech" on my part. I don't have religious faith.

If the person who told you that "Matthew" was there ~ and supposedly saw countless people rising from the dead and moving into the city, or if you were told it in some other way ~ if it is a private matter, then so be it.

Faith isn't just a religious matter, and any view regarding religious topics is a view on religious topics.

@kellyjay said
Faith isn't just a religious matter, and any view regarding religious topics is a view on religious topics.

Well, "faith" is "a religious matter" if we are discussing your religious beliefs.

As you say, "any view regarding religious topics is a view on religious topics" but your "faith" that you will have everlasting life" does not have a counterpart among my beliefs that warrants the label "faith".

"A view on religious topics" and "religious faith" are two separate things.

@fmf said
Well, "faith" is "a religious matter" if we are discussing your religious beliefs.

As you say, "any view regarding religious topics is a view on religious topics" but your "faith" that you will have everlasting life" does not have a counterpart among my beliefs that warrants the label "faith".

"A view on religious topics" and "religious faith" are two separate things.

Our worldviews are comprised of how we view everything, all of the truths we believe them to be, not necessary can prove, we can't prove much of what any of us believe. Your faith that something is or isn't on any matter, be it everlasting life or something else, is yours.

@kellyjay said
Your faith that something is or isn't on any matter, be it everlasting life or something else, is yours.

You can't expect people to believe "faith" and "lack of faith" are synonyms.

@kellyjay said
Faith isn't just a religious matter, and any view regarding religious topics is a view on religious topics.

You can't expect people to believe "religious faith" and "an opinion about religion" are synonymous.

@fmf said
You can't expect people to believe "faith" and "lack of faith" are synonyms.

Why not?

@fmf said
You can't expect people to believe "religious faith" and "an opinion about religion" are synonymous.

No, not really, but I do accept that whatever variables you use to discern right from wrong, good from evil, truth from lies, whys and why not are all bound up in how you think the universe came to be no matter how you think it came to be. I also think it is possible even to believe something is true and still deny it for the peace of mind you acquire by doing what you know is wrong, simply because you want to.

@kellyjay said
Why not?

OK, so you believe that "faith" and "lack of faith" are synonyms.

Gosh.

So when you talk about your "faith", the word is interchangeable with "lack of faith"?

Are "theism" and "atheism" synonyms too?

What about "saved" and "damned"? Are they synonyms?

@fmf said
OK, so you believe that "faith" and "lack of faith" are synonyms.

Gosh.

So when you talk about your "faith", the word is interchangeable with "lack of faith"?

Are "theism" and "atheism" synonyms too?

What about "saved" and "damned"? Are they synonyms?

Faith in something is to trust it; lack of faith in something is not to trust it. Having no thoughts about something isn't even to think about it, so nothing is being discussed one way or the other.

@kellyjay said
Faith in something is to trust it; lack of faith in something is not to trust it.

I do not place "trust" in your personal opinions about supernatural things and about immortality/heaven [for you] and divine punishment/hell [for me]. To claim that this is the "faith" that I have, is possibly the ultimate in you pissing on my back and telling me it's raining. Do you understand the expression?

@fmf said
I do not place "trust" in your personal opinions about supernatural things and about immortality/heaven [for you] and divine punishment/hell [for me]. To claim that this is the "faith" that I have, is possibly the ultimate in you pissing on my back and telling me it's raining. Do you understand the expression?

Explain the meaning of that expression.

@kellyjay said
Explain the meaning of that expression.

Mr X comes to me and tells me his "faith" says my wife and children will be tortured in front of me, supernaturally, for 1,000,000 years if I don't believe what he believes which is that we are reincarnated as reptiles if we are bad in this life. That's his "faith".

If I find this not credible, would you say that the substance of MY "faith" is that my wife and children will NOT be tortured in front of me, supernaturally, for 1,000,000 years ?

@fmf said
Mr X comes to me and tells me his "faith" says my wife and children will be tortured in front of me, supernaturally, for 1,000,000 years if I don't believe what he believes which is that we are reincarnated as reptiles if we are bad in this life. That's his "faith".

If I find this not credible, would you say that the substance of MY "faith" is that my wife and children will NOT be tortured in front of me, supernaturally, for 1,000,000 years ?

I would say what he believes one way or another is meaningless, but reality isn’t shaped by what we like or dislike or what we find pleasant or distasteful.