@fmf saidIf you don’t see God as real and perfect in righteousness. goodness, just, and in every other metric what are you using to measure anything? How you feel as you got out of bed today which was different days ago, weeks ago, months ago, years ago?
So, it is just because it is just. You trust God because you trust God. You know what you know because you know what you know. Hey presto, that's the moral incoherence of the doctrine rendered coherent.
I believe in absolutes for all of those attributes God has and He is the standard for each of them. You change your mind accepting somethings years ago rejecting them now and you are going to suggest to me you understand righteousness, goodness, and morality better than God?
@kellyjay saidAll you are doing here is basically nothing more than declaring you believe it is morally coherent because that is what you believe.
If you don’t see God as real and perfect in righteousness. goodness, just, and in every other metric what are you using to measure anything? How you feel as you got out of bed today which was different days ago, weeks ago, months ago, years ago?
I believe in absolutes for all of those attributes God has and He is the standard for each of them. You change your mind accepti ...[text shortened]... you are going to suggest to me you understand righteousness, goodness, and morality better than God?
@fmf saidYou keep going on as if you were the pinnacle of all knowledge of moral excellence, and as I pointed out to you, your views on what is moral and proper have been changing your whole life. I'm telling you that God is the prime reality, the absolute pinnacle of all that is good, just, moral, true, righteous, and on and on, which makes God, not you, the absolute authority on what is good and morally coherent.
All you are doing here is basically nothing more than declaring you believe it is morally coherent because that is what you believe.
I'm not telling you to believe it because I do; I'm as flawed as the next guy, you may want this discussion to be only about your views and mine, but they are not. God is the creator of all things, holds all things together by the power of His Word, and everyone owes their whole being and everything they have and ever had their whole lives to Him, as does everyone else. So how we treat everyone else and God reflects what type of people we are on our own, capable of horrendous actions through our acts or inactions. We are all called into an eternal Kingdom by our creator, and if we choose not to answer that call, we make our choice.
@kellyjay saidDeclaring that your take on morality coincides with "all that is good, just, moral, true, righteous, and on and on" and your beliefs are in line with "the absolute authority on what is good and morally coherent" is just a statement of your subjective beliefs it is not a moral argument.
You keep going on as if you were the pinnacle of all knowledge of moral excellence, and as I pointed out to you, your views on what is moral and proper have been changing your whole life. I'm telling you that God is the prime reality, the absolute pinnacle of all that is good, just, moral, true, righteous, and on and on, which makes God, not you, the absolute authority on what is good and morally coherent.
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@kellyjay saidThis is a snapshot of your religious beliefs and not a attempt to demonstrate the moral coherence of neverending stupendous vengeful violence as a punishment for simply not believing what you believe. Surely your philosophy regarding supernatural justice equips you with an "argument" that is more credible than: 'It is morally coherent because it is morally coherent'
God is the creator of all things, holds all things together by the power of His Word, and everyone owes their whole being and everything they have and ever had their whole lives to Him, as does everyone else. So how we treat everyone else and God reflects what type of people we are on our own, capable of horrendous actions through our acts or inactions. We are all called into an eternal Kingdom by our creator, and if we choose not to answer that call, we make our choice.
@fmf said<<This is a snapshot of your religious beliefs and not a attempt to demonstrate the moral coherence of neverending stupendous vengeful violence as a punishment for simply not believing what you believe.>>
This is a snapshot of your religious beliefs and not a attempt to demonstrate the moral coherence of neverending stupendous vengeful violence as a punishment for simply not believing what you believe. Surely your philosophy regarding supernatural justice equips you with an "argument" that is more credible than: 'It is morally coherent because it is morally coherent'
Your presentation of the Christian perspective is flawed because you aren’t a Christian and never were.
The “punishment” is not for “simply not believing what [KellyJay] believes.”
It’s because your numerous sins are not forgiven.
And your numerous sins are not forgiven because you’ve rejected Jesus Christ and salvation is in no other.
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
(Acts 4:12)
God doesn’t want sin in Heaven. If you don’t want to accept His free gift of salvation and having your sins forgiven, that’s your decision.
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@pb1022 saidAnd my "sins" would all be "forgiven" if I believed. So, yes it does, in fact, boil down to "punishment" simply for not being a believer [and not believing the stuff KellyJay believes].
The “punishment” is not for “simply not believing what [KellyJay] believes.”
It’s because your numerous sins are not forgiven.
@pb1022 saidMany Christians, maybe most of them, profess a belief in the existence of a grotesque neverending punishment for simply not believing what they believe. This is not a "flawed" presentation. I have met and talked to countless Christians and the torturer God doctrine has been laid out and promoted by numerous Christians here on this forum stretching back as long as it has been in operation.
Your presentation of the Christian perspective is flawed because you aren’t a Christian and never were.
@pb1022 saidI have "rejected" your ideology in much the same way as I have "rejected" offers from the widow of the Nigerian Finance Minister to transfer $1,000,000 to me in return for my assistance getting $10,000,000 out of her country. If I'd just give here my bank details and pin code...
And your numerous sins are not forgiven because you’ve rejected Jesus Christ and salvation is in no other.
@FMF
No interest in talking with you. Just setting you straight.
You proved your insincerity in discussing spiritual matters yesterday.
This forum “discussion” for you is simply a way to badger and harass people who are foolish enough to engage with you.
When you say something that’s obviously wrong, I’ll correct it when I see it.
Other than that, enjoy “standing strong” in your atheism and finding a partner for your insincere, disingenuous and never-ending prattle.
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@fmf saidBut you were foolish enough to be a Christian for, what was it, 30 years?
I have "rejected" your ideology in much the same way as I have "rejected" offers from the widow of the Nigerian Finance Minister to transfer $1,000,000 to me in return for my assistance getting $10,000,000 out of her country. If I'd just give here my bank details and pin code...
Or so you claim. But you pretty much proved that was a lie last night based on your incredible ignorance of the faith and the Holy Bible.
And I’m not offering you my “ideology.”
I’m defending the truth of Christianity against your stupidity.