@pb1022 saidYour current beliefs are different from my current beliefs. This does not mean what I say about myself and what I believe, now and in the past, is a "lie". You just disagree with me, that's all.
But you were foolish enough to be a Christian for, what was it, 30 years?Or so you claim. But you pretty much proved that was a lie last night based on your incredible ignorance of the faith and the Holy Bible.
@fmf said<<I wasn't "foolish" at all. I don't have any regrets about being a Christian and I do not look back on what I believed as being "foolish".>>
I wasn't "foolish" at all. I don't have any regrets about being a Christian and I do not look back on what I believed as being "foolish". And it was more like 25 years.
You’re having trouble keeping your lies straight.
You just compared Christianity to the Nigerian Internet scam. Then you say you don’t think you were foolish for believing it for 25 years.
Such a waste of time to talk to someone so untethered from the truth.
@pb1022 saidMy agnostic atheism in no way involves me “standing strong”. There are simply things I do not believe.
Other than that, enjoy “standing strong” in your atheism and finding a partner for your insincere, disingenuous and never-ending prattle.
If the moral logic espoused by Christians like KellyJay is lacking in coherence and is unpersuasive, it is not because my lack of belief is "strong"; it's more a case that the moral justification offered is weak.
@pb1022 saidNeither the Nigerian widow nor KellyJay is offering me something real.
You just compared Christianity to the Nigerian Internet scam.
I cannot choose or decide to believe the widow's offer is real, and that $1 million dollars are actually there for the taking.
The same goes for the everlasting life/eternal punishment options that KellyJay's ideology claims to offer me.
@kellyjay saidI appreciate your sincerity and your tenacity, KellyJay, our profound disagreements aside.
I believe in absolutes for all of those attributes God has and He is the standard for each of them. You change your mind accepting somethings years ago rejecting them now and you are going to suggest to me you understand righteousness, goodness, and morality better than God?
Your fellow Christian PB1022 / Romans1009 appears to want to propagate an ideology very similar to yours.
But he seeks to do so using a barrage of shabby message board banter and silly accusations.
@fmf saidWhose beliefs would you expect to get when talking to me, most certainly not yours? That is all I get talking to you. As pointed out to you countless times, we all have true beliefs and not; the other thing that most certainly is that what we are talking about has nothing to do with either your beliefs or mine, but reality and by reality God. You keep going on about a coherent morality; with God, it all becomes coherent the prime mover, the causeless cause, the source of life, all reason for being, why we can think, why we are capable to do good, to even know what good is, who made everything through the Living Word that makes it all understandable, and you are the spouting off about your philosophy regarding supernatural justice isn't lining up with what God is going to do, who do you think you are?
This is a snapshot of your religious beliefs and not a attempt to demonstrate the moral coherence of neverending stupendous vengeful violence as a punishment for simply not believing what you believe. Surely your philosophy regarding supernatural justice equips you with an "argument" that is more credible than: 'It is morally coherent because it is morally coherent'
@kellyjay saidThank you for your thoughts on this. However, they amount to little more than a combination of [1] you believe it's true because you believe it's true, [2] you think it is justice because you think it's justice, [3] you find it morally coherent because you find it morally coherent, [4] it doesn't need to be morally coherent to anyone except you because it is morally coherent to you, although you can't explain it much beyond 'it is what it is', and so on and so forth.
You keep going on about a coherent morality; with God, it all becomes coherent the prime mover, the causeless cause, the source of life, all reason for being, why we can think, why we are capable to do good, to even know what good is, who made everything through the Living Word that makes it all understandable, and you are the spouting off about your philosophy regarding supernatural justice isn't lining up with what God is going to do, who do you think you are?
@fmf saidYou somehow think I cannot say the same thing to you; thanks for sharing your ever-changing thoughts at the moment on the topic we are discussing because you have been on several different sides of this and many other discussions? The one who made us both has standards that don't change on a whim, unlike yours and mine, and you find this incoherent; it isn't that it is incoherent; it is that you are willfully blind. We are moving from a temporary universe where nothing is permanent and going into an eternal one. Our Creator has standards and a willingness to let us in by His mercy and grace, we go there for no other reasons, not because we believe this or that, or do good works, think fine thoughts, or even to have the faith to move mountains.
Thank you for your thoughts on this. However, they amount to little more than a combination of [1] you believe it's true because you believe it's true, [2] you think it is justice because you think it's justice, [3] you find it morally coherent because you find it morally coherent, [4] it doesn't need to be morally coherent to anyone except you because it is morally coherent to you, although you can't explain it much beyond 'it is what it is', and so on and so forth.
@kellyjay saidWho do I think I am?
You are spouting off about your philosophy regarding supernatural justice isn't lining up with what God is going to do, who do you think you are?
Well, I am someone who finds what you attribute to your God figure to be morally incoherent and morally depraved.
I am questioning YOUR idea of morality.
Whether you are deriving your philosophy from a pamphlet you read in a dentist's waiting room in the 1990s or from what you consider to be a "holy book", is neither here nor there.
If you can't make a moral case that justifies torture by burning flames for eternity for being a non-believer/unforgiven "sins", so be it.
@kellyjay saidI have not been on "several different sides of this and many other discussions". You are mistaken.
thanks for sharing your ever-changing thoughts at the moment on the topic we are discussing because you have been on several different sides of this and many other discussions?
@kellyjay saidNone of these assertions is anything other than some blend of 'IT IS WHAT IT IS' and 'SMELL THE GLOVE', writ large.
The one who made us both has standards that don't change on a whim, unlike yours and mine, and you find this incoherent; it isn't that it is incoherent; it is that you are willfully blind. We are moving from a temporary universe where nothing is permanent and going into an eternal one. Our Creator has standards and a willingness to let us in by His mercy and grace, we go the ...[text shortened]... ve this or that, or do good works, think fine thoughts, or even to have the faith to move mountains.
Don't pretend that you are, by reciting such assertions, making a case for the coherence of the morally grotesque ideology that you champion.