Grace

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
RB, wouldn't the "true atheist" deny/reject the possibility of both an after life and a heaven?

Of the only "2" beliefs possible the atheist is of works not grace.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Of the only "2" beliefs possible the atheist is of works not grace.

In ultimate terms, yes; during life on earth, there may or may not be cognizance of any value in "works".

Originally posted by RBHILL
Of the only "2" beliefs possible the atheist is of works not grace.

There's a chap at work who spends most of his existence caring for others. I've never met anybody in my life who has a bigger heart, who gives constantly to others without expecting or wanting anything in return. However you want to define grace, this chap is full of it. He also happens to be an atheist.

The way you speak of atheists is as though you have never actually met one; or perhaps you are simply confusing them with Estate Agents.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
There's a chap at work who spends most of his existence caring for others. I've never met anybody in my life who has a bigger heart, who gives constantly to others without expecting or wanting anything in return. However you want to define grace, this chap is full of it. He also happens to be an atheist.

The way you speak of atheists is as though you have never actually met one; or perhaps you are simply confusing them with Estate Agents.

I have a cousin who is an atheist who is a flaming liberal!

Originally posted by RBHILL
I have a cousin who is an atheist who is a flaming liberal!

You make a valid point. All atheists therefore must be liberals.

🙄

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
There's a chap at work who spends most of his existence caring for others. I've never met anybody in my life who has a bigger heart, who gives constantly to others without expecting or wanting anything in return. However you want to define grace, this chap is full of it. He also happens to be an atheist.

The way you speak of atheists is as though you have never actually met one; or perhaps you are simply confusing them with Estate Agents.

Ghost of a Duke, I've met many atheists during the course of my life both offline and online; many are still close and trusted friends. The only crux issue is that at the Great White Throne Judgment following the conclusion of the Millennium no unbeliever's sins will be judged. Why? Christ satisfied [propitiated] God the Father's Righteousness during the final three hours of His crucifixion with His substitutionary spiritual death [separation from God the Father] on your behalf and mine. The Second Book of Works will be opened: even 1,000,000,000,000,001 good works will not equal one infinitesimal speck of God's Righteousness because they're qualitatively of a human rather than a divine origin and source. Though human morality is a wonderful character quality, it misses the mark which is faith alone in Christ alone in accepting God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life. "Grace" is all that God is free to do for us because of Christ's finished work on that center Roman Cross at Golgotha Hill nearly 2,000 years ago. -Bob

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Ghost of a Duke, I've met many atheists during the course of my life both offline and online; many are still close and trusted friends. The only crux issue is that at the Great White Throne Judgment following the conclusion of the Millennium no unbeliever's sins will be judged. Why? Christ satisfied [propitiated] God the Father's Righteousness during th ...[text shortened]... Christ's finished work on that center Roman Cross at Golgotha Hill nearly 2,000 years ago. -Bob

And that is one of the many reasons your religion is repugnant and immoral.

And again... Prove it.

Prove that what you assert as fact is actually true.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Though human morality is a wonderful character quality, it misses the mark which is faith alone in Christ alone in accepting God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life.

I struggle with that concept. What of the murderer and his victim. What if the victim was a man who spent his life doing good works, and the murderer's only saving grace that he had faith in Christ. Would the murderer really be the only one of the two to be gifted salvation? And if so, how do you reconcile that with your own sense of justice?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I struggle with that concept. What of the murderer and his victim. What if the victim was a man who spent his life doing good works, and the murderer's only saving grace that he had faith in Christ. Would the murderer really be the only one of the two to be gifted salvation? And if so, how do you reconcile that with your own sense of justice?

"Morality: a personal or social set of standards for good or bad behavior and character, or the quality of being right and honest.” Dictionary © Cambridge University Press) Yes, murder is an egregious act deserving of capital punishment. The only issue in this thread is human good works as if they could ever gain God's approbation vs. God's Son having already done the work and accepting His grace gift. Morality, important as it is to sustain a civilized society. functions on a horizontal human plane; salvation and eternal life by faith in Christ functions on a vertical plane.

Originally posted by googlefudge
And that is one of the many reasons your religion is repugnant and immoral.

And again... Prove it.

Prove that what you assert as fact is actually true.

"About @googlefudge

Vos existimantur cogitare, Antequam vos infringere regulas.

If you believe in a god or gods and claim to know it or they exist then you're a "gnostic theist".

If you believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic theist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic atheist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and claim to know if it or they doesn't exist then you're a "gnostic atheist".

http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/


In general I am an agnostic atheist, but I am a gnostic atheist with respect to some/many proposed gods....

But this tells you almost nothing about me as my atheism is a result of my beliefs and values and is not the
source of them.

It is a statement of the absence of belief based on blind irrational faith.

http://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/atheistdefine.html

http://atheistexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/matts-superiority-of-secular-morality.html

YouTube&feature=channel_video_title

http://yudkowsky.net/rational/bayes

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1to/what_is_bayesianism/

http://oscarbonilla.com/2009/05/visualizing-bayes-theorem/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability"

Your mind appears to have become frozen shut with respect to the person and work of Jesus Christ.
While there's still time, for your sake and your family's sake, I hope and pray it begins to thaw.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Your mind appears to have become frozen shut with respect to the person and work of Jesus Christ. While there's still time, for your sake and your family's sake, I hope and pray it begins to thaw.

"...for [his] family's sake"? Do you think mentioning googlefudge's family in this way applies some small degree of extra pressure on him to believe what you believe and abandon his own beliefs?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Grace

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." {Ephesians 2:8-9) Generation after generation God's gracious gift of salvation and eternal life has been made available to every member of the human race. Whether this gift is ac ...[text shortened]... as been worked for, earned or inherited.

What does the five letter word "grace" mean to you?[/b]

Grace is not a get out of jail free card.

A person must act and live a saintly life and refrain from meat eating and gambling and speculation and intoxication and drugs and illicit sex...................and only then is he/she ready for starting their spiritual journey.

If you have accepted true religion and are prepared to learn and raise your consciousness to a saintly level..............then this means you have been given the good grace to have embraced true spirituality and you must stay fixed and enthusiastic on the spiritual path.

Grace does not mean that you get hit on the head with a magic wand and now nothing is going to stop you getting into your imagined heaven..............and whilst you gorge yourself on the flesh of slaughtered animals and engage in illicit sex whilst intoxicated.

Originally posted by Dasa
.............and whilst you gorge yourself on the flesh of slaughtered animals and engage in illicit sex whilst intoxicated.

Or in other words, a good Friday night out.

Originally posted by FMF
"...for [his] family's sake"? Do you think mentioning googlefudge's family in this way applies some small degree of extra pressure on him to believe what you believe and abandon his own beliefs?

Paul and Silas Imprisoned: Acts 16: 22 "The crowd rose up together against them, and the chief magistrates tore their robes off them and proceeded to order them to be beaten with rods. 23 When they had struck them with many blows, they threw them into prison, commanding the jailer to guard them securely; 24 and he, having received such a command, threw them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks."

25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26 and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened. 27 When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

The Jailer Converted: Acts 16: 31 "They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” [if they also believe]. 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household [who had also believed in the person and work of Jesus Christ]." Note: Also applicable to every member of Red Hot Pawn.

Originally posted by Dasa
Grace is not a get out of jail free card.

A person must act and live a saintly life and refrain from meat eating and gambling and speculation and intoxication and drugs and illicit sex...................and only then is he/she ready for starting their spiritual journey.

If you have accepted true religion and are prepared to learn and raise your consciousness ...[text shortened]... ou gorge yourself on the flesh of slaughtered animals and engage in illicit sex whilst intoxicated.

Dasa, thanks for your lengthy and interesting reply on what "Grace" doesn't mean to you.
Please continue with "What... the five letter word "grace" [does] mean to you?"