1. Standard memberchaney3online
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    20 Aug '17 03:47
    Why would God harden the heart of Pharaoh?

    The plagues could have been avoided if Pharaoh utilized his own free will.

    God intervened to make sure the plagues happened.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    20 Aug '17 06:512 edits
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Why would God harden the heart of Pharaoh?

    The plagues could have been avoided if Pharaoh utilized his own free will.

    God intervened to make sure the plagues happened.
    So what is your point?

    "And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

    But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

    And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them." -- Exodus 7:3-5, KJV

    Don't you get that yes, God wanted his people delivered from Egypt, but if Pharaoh just said, "yeah, sure, ok, go", people who later heard the story might think, "Wow, what a nice guy Pharaoh was." God wanted everyone to know that HE delivered HIS people out of bondage and led them to the land of milk and honey. So, two goals: 1) So people would know that HE is the LORD, and 2) So that everyone would know that the Hebrews were HIS people.
  3. Shetland Primary
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    20 Aug '17 07:041 edit
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Why would God harden the heart of Pharaoh?

    The plagues could have been avoided if Pharaoh utilized his own free will.

    God intervened to make sure the plagues happened.
    Having a hard heart towards God is our natural state. His heart was already hardened by himself. After some time God hands you over completely to your own will.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    20 Aug '17 08:351 edit
    Exodus says both, that Pharoah hardened his heart and that God hardened it.
    Probably, no man would have been able to withstand such opposition from God unless God hardened his already hardened heart.

    But it is a paradox I would not claim I completely understand.

    This is bit of ministry from Life Study of Exodus by Witness Lee helps me. Many other good commentaries could probably also help.

    We have pointed out that some verses say that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, whereas other verses say that God made Pharaoh's heart hard. In the same principle, in some places we are told that Pharaoh hardened his heart (8:15, 19) but elsewhere, that Pharaoh's heart was hard (7:13, Heb.). There is a difference between hardening the heart and the heart becoming hard. In Exodus we are told both that Pharaoh hardened his heart and that his heart became hard. This indicates that Pharaoh firstly hardened his heart. The result was that his heart became hard. Hence, the heart being hard was the consequence of the hardening of the heart. Before Pharaoh hardened his heart, it was still possible for his heart to be softened. But instead of softening his heart, Pharaoh hardened it. The same is true today. Before a person hardens his heart, his heart is not hard. To some extent at least, it is soft. But once he decides to harden his heart, his heart becomes hard.


    IV. PHARAOH'S
    HARDENING
    OF HIS HEART


    With this as the background, we come to the problem of the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. Did God firstly harden Pharaoh's heart, or did Pharaoh take the first step to harden his own heart? As a help in answering this question, consider your experience in believing in the Lord Jesus. Was this initiated by you or by God? Surely it was initiated by God. However, you did the believing. Before I was saved, I had no thought of God. My believing in Christ was neither planned nor initiated by me. I have the full assurance that the source of this was God Himself. He planned it, initiated it, and scheduled it. Before I was saved, I was not willing to believe in Christ. However, one day I spontaneously became willing. According to my experience and yours as well, God took the first step to cause us to believe in Christ.

    In the same principle, God took the first step in the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. Before Moses had his first confrontation with Pharaoh, God told him that He would harden Pharaoh's heart (4:21). However, in the case of our salvation, God initiated our believing in the Lord Jesus, but He did not execute it by believing for us. God planned that we should believe, but we ourselves had to believe. Likewise, God firstly hardened Pharaoh's heart, then Pharaoh carried out this hardening through his own free will.


    Message given in early 1970s decade.
    Read more, by all means - at http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?cid=39

    Specifically on the hardening of Pharoah's heart at

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=30E3FAA2CF
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Aug '17 10:51
    Originally posted by @sonship
    [b]Exodus says both, that Pharoah hardened his heart and that God hardened it.
    Probably, no man would have been able to withstand such opposition from God unless God hardened his already hardened heart.

    But it is a paradox I would not claim I completely understand.

    This is bit of ministry from Life Study of Exodus by Witness Lee helps me. ...[text shortened]... ening of Pharoah's heart at

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=30E3FAA2CF[/b]
    I don't believe it is a paradox, I think it happens the same way each time for us all. If we
    are willing to allow God in our hearts can go hard to soft, stone to flesh. If we resist God
    we harden our hearts. I believe the reason it says both, because both are true. God acted
    and knowing what someone does when they resist his heart was harden, by himself in the
    act of resisting God.

    Proverbs 28:14
    Blessed is the one who fears the Lord always, but whoever hardens his heart will fall into calamity.

    Psalm 95:8
    do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah, as on the day at Massah in the wilderness,

    Zechariah 7:12
    They made their hearts diamond-hard lest they should hear the law and the words that the Lord of hosts had sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great anger came from the Lord of hosts.

    Mark 3:5
    And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.

    Mark 6:52
    for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened.

    Romans 2:5
    But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

    Hebrews 3:15
    As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

    Hebrews 4:7
    again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

    Ezekiel 36:26
    And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
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    20 Aug '17 14:14
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    I don't believe it is a paradox, I think it happens the same way each time for us all. If we
    are willing to allow God in our hearts can go hard to soft, stone to flesh. If we resist God
    we harden our hearts. I believe the reason it says both, because both are true. God acted
    and knowing what someone does when they resist his heart was harden, by himself ...[text shortened]... within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
    So what you are saying is that God could have given Pharaoh a soft heart, but didn't do it.

    Of course you continue to ignore God's statement where he declares that he would harden Pharaoh's heart.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Aug '17 14:49
    Originally posted by @eladar
    So what you are saying is that God could have given Pharaoh a soft heart, but didn't do it.

    Of course you continue to ignore God's statement where he declares that he would harden Pharaoh's heart.
    What I said was that God reached out and he harden his heart. That same action would draw another to God, his being dead set against God made him harden it. Resisting God has an affect on us, so does obeying Him.
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    20 Aug '17 14:52
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    What I said was that God reached out and he harden his heart. That same action would draw another to God, his being dead set against God made him harden it. Resisting God has an affect on us, so does obeying Him.
    What you are saying is in contradiction to what the Bible says.

    I'll believe the Bible.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Aug '17 14:57
    Originally posted by @eladar
    What you are saying is in contradiction to what the Bible says.

    I'll believe the Bible.
    What part?
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    20 Aug '17 15:04
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    What part?
    Exodus 4

    The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

    Exodus 7

    You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt,


    13 Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Aug '17 16:39
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Exodus 4

    The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

    Exodus 7

    You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 ...[text shortened]...
    13 Yet Pharaoh’s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.
    I don't disagree or deny that so what is wrong?
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    20 Aug '17 16:50
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    I don't disagree or deny that so what is wrong?
    By adding to scripture you disagree with it.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    20 Aug '17 16:55
    Originally posted by @eladar
    By adding to scripture you disagree with it.
    What exactly is he adding?
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    20 Aug '17 16:57
    Originally posted by @eladar
    What you are saying is in contradiction to what the Bible says.

    I'll believe the Bible.
    What you mean to say is that what he says is in contradiction to what YOU believe the Bible says.
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    20 Aug '17 17:09
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    What you mean to say is that what he says is in contradiction to what YOU believe the Bible says.
    Not at all.

    God says that he would harden Pharaoh's heart. No where does it say Pharaoh will reject me and thereby hardening his own heart.
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