Originally posted by KingOnPoint
...there are over 600 commandments showing how the Israelites had to live to not sin.

Does this include or exclude the rules laid out in books like Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy?

Originally posted by FMF
One wonders if you have actually ever read any of my posts. 🙂

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Originally posted by SwissGambit
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"BibleBot" some kind of scriptReveal Hidden Content

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Well said.

Was trying. Chrysostom explained the idea more effortlessly though, about being the clay pots that are molded and fashioned rather than the earthen vessels that are easily broken.

Originally posted by stellspalfie

i like some of the stains on my soul. i really enjoyed getting them. it would be a shame to wipe them away.

You'd make a lousy Buddhist.

Originally posted by FMF
A chance to define or discuss 'sin' and 'sinful behaviour'.

It's half past twelve in the afternoon here. I've been up since about 5 am. I've been thinking about it: I don't think I have 'sinned' today. And I'm fairly sure I can get through the rest of the day without doing so.

Do the self-identified 'sinners' among you 'sin' every day?

If I defined 'sin ...[text shortened]... e talking about [and it comes up an awful lot on this forum] when we mention 'sinful behaviour'?

Sin is going against the word of god/s.

As pretty much any/all proposed gods that have a concept of sin [or equivalent]
regard not believing in and worshipping them to be a sin... then I sin every second
of every minute of every day.

However nobody has ever presented me with a sound or convincing argument for why
I, or anybody else, should care.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I'll have to disagree and suggest that it is everyone's damn business if someone commits the sin of, say, murder.

However the reason for that is not because it is a sin.

It's because it's immoral and criminal.

The fact that it might be considered a sin is irrelevant.

Originally posted by googlefudge
However the reason for that is not because it is a sin.

It's because it's immoral and criminal.

The fact that it might be considered a sin is irrelevant.

Nah, its a sin... Immoral and criminal came afterwards.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Yeah, 'violence' is a big omission. It could be several items.

-Domestic abuse: striking the inhabitants of your own house.
-Fighting: a war of words escalates into a physical conflict.
-Depraved violence towards the helpless: think A Clockwork Orange and beating up bums for fun.
-Theft-related violence: injuring people during a robbery.

Also, d ...[text shortened]... anything about vandalism? Destruction of property? Seems the list needs to be modernized a bit.

You are missing the central aspect of sin...


It has nothing at all to do with morality.


Sins are simply commands or laws based on the whim of a god or gods.

Or really what people made up for there own reasons as the commandments
of their fictional gods.

You are trying to come up with a list of moral commandments [which doesn't
work as any list of moral commandments will be contradictory and incomplete
and too inflexible to deal with changing technology and societies, it's a really
bad way of constructing a moral code] but sins are simply the laws laid down
by a god and only the god can change them.

Which is tricky as the gods in question don't exist... So we are simply left with
the much translated and interpreted thoughts of long dead ignorant peasants.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]"12. EFFEMINANCY — men unnaturally taking on female characteristics and behavior."

i like to watch the occasional rom-com here and there and also get upset when my wife goes straight to sleep after sex (i need to snuggle for a bit and talk about feelings).............am i filthy evil sinner!!!![/b]

Yeah... I read that one and wondered what we were classing as 'female characteristics' in today's world.

Originally posted by yoctobyte
Nah, its a sin... Immoral and criminal came afterwards.

Only if you believe that people invented the idea that gods [and specifically gods
who cared about sin] before they discovered that murder was bad or immoral...

Which is incredibly unlikely historically.

But then you hold the bat guano crazy idea that gods exist to be true so I see how
you could be confused.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Only if you believe that people invented the idea that gods [and specifically gods
who cared about sin] before they discovered that murder was bad or immoral...

Which is incredibly unlikely historically.

But then you hold the bat guano crazy idea that gods exist to be true so I see how
you could be confused.

But then you hold the bat guano crazy idea that gods exist to be true so I see how you could be confused

Why is it for you guys... anybody that has a faith (Christian in this case) do you have to make yourselves 'seem' better at somebody elses expense. There are several atheists that participate in this forum which all pretty much do the same. Are you so threatened that somebody else can't hold a view or belief that differs from your own. Kinda peculiar, not too impressive.

Originally posted by googlefudge
However the reason for that is not because it is a sin.

It's because it's immoral and criminal.

The fact that it might be considered a sin is irrelevant.

Yes, yes, yes, I know you don't like the term. Noted.

Originally posted by googlefudge
You are missing the central aspect of sin...


It has nothing [b]at all to do with morality.


Sins are simply commands or laws based on the whim of a god or gods.

Or really what people made up for there own reasons as the commandments
of their fictional gods.

You are trying to come up with a list of moral commandments [i][which ...[text shortened]... simply left with
the much translated and interpreted thoughts of long dead ignorant peasants.[/b]

Sin has something to do with morality, since some things morally bad are also sins. Again, you are letting your dislike of certain terms blind you to reality.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Sin has something to do with morality, since some things morally bad are also sins. Again, you are letting your dislike of certain terms blind you to reality.

How loosely are you defining 'something to do with'?

The rules for identifying the contents of the 'set of all sins' don't include
anything about morality.
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The fact that some of the members of the 'set of all sins' are also members
of the set 'immoral things to do' doesn't in any way mean that sin/s have
anything to do with morality.

And I am not letting my 'dislike' of the concept of sin get in the way of anything.
Your response is an ad hominem and not a response to my actual argument.
If you think I am wrong give me a reason, don't just tell my I'm biased because that
is simply committing a logical fallacy.

Everyone is biased, that doesn't tell us anything about whether at any particular
moment a given person is right.

I hate the idea of sin BECAUSE I have thought about it and found it abominable.
Before I thought about it I was totally indifferent to the concept, and [mistakenly]
used it interchangeably with morality.