1. Joined
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    06 Oct '07 19:01
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." (Heb 6:4ff)

    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
  2. Joined
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    06 Oct '07 19:08
    Originally posted by Von Sulla
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t ...[text shortened]...
    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
    No, that's just another sentence to spread fear. Don't take everything literally.
  3. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    06 Oct '07 19:17
    Originally posted by Von Sulla
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t ...[text shortened]...
    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
    My answer would be emphatically no. If you had fully fallen away then God would not be able to bring you back. In any case , you may have just fallen away from the church but not Christ himself. Infact you may not have fallen much at all and the enemy is just trying to make you think there is no point in recovery. The question is what does "fallen away" actually mean?

    Don't forget in Isiah (I think) it talks about Christ and says "the bruised reed he will not crush , the smouldering wick he will not put out until he has brought the least of these to taste in his glory" I'm not sure this quote is word perfect but you get the gist of it?
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
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    06 Oct '07 19:22
    Originally posted by serigado
    No, that's just another sentence to spread fear. Don't take everything literally.
    What? If you say it's there to "spread fear" , then you don't sound like a Christian. If you are not a Christian what are doing trying to help this guy?

    You don't know what you are talking about. If you are reading this Von Sulla just ignore this guy. He will not understand what you are struggling with.
  5. Standard memberNemesio
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    06 Oct '07 19:47
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    My answer would be emphatically no. If you had fully fallen away then God would not be able to bring you back. In any case , you may have just fallen away from the church but not Christ himself. Infact you may not have fallen much at all and the enemy is just trying to make you think there is no point in recovery. The question is what does "fallen away" actually mean?
    Obviously, this verse was intended for some purpose. Obviously, some Christians were
    falling away and trying to return.

    What criteria for falling away and trying to return would you say applies for this verse?

    Nemesio
  6. Standard memberepic0002
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    06 Oct '07 20:172 edits
    These verses are more likely demonstrating an impossible situation, because if it were possible then Christ would have to die again. Salvation is not of our ability but of Christ’s sacrifice.
  7. Standard memberknightmeister
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    06 Oct '07 21:06
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Obviously, this verse was intended for some purpose. Obviously, some Christians were
    falling away and trying to return.

    What criteria for falling away and trying to return would you say applies for this verse?

    Nemesio
    What criteria for falling away and trying to return would you say applies for this verse?

    Nemesio-------------

    I would guess it's got to do with someone who has completely turned their back on Christ and knows they are doing it. The issue is whether the person knows what they are doing. I had a period of 'falling away' and didn't pray much or go to church but I don't think I fell 'all the way' and there were other reasons for it. I think this verse applies to someone who is unlikely to ever want to return anyway due to having severed their relationship with God altogether. Backsliding is not falling away. Anyway, why do you ask?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Oct '07 21:11
    Originally posted by Von Sulla
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t ...[text shortened]...
    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
    What exactly do you mean by a recovering Christian?
    Going to church has nothing to do with your salvation.
    Your salvation depends on how well you have followed the teachings of Christ. There is no commandment of Christ to go to church.
  9. Standard memberNemesio
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    06 Oct '07 21:30
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    I would guess it's got to do with someone who has completely turned their back on Christ and knows they are doing it. The issue is whether the person knows what they are doing. I had a period of 'falling away' and didn't pray much or go to church but I don't think I fell 'all the way' and there were other reasons for it. I think this verse applies to ...[text shortened]... elationship with God altogether. Backsliding is not falling away. Anyway, why do you ask?
    So, it is then possible for someone to do something so horrible that there can be no repenting?
    If I knowingly curse the name of Jesus and deny Him and His teachings and His Church and so
    forth while spitting, burning a cross and urinating on a Bible -- that is, doing all the things I could
    do to 'fall all the way,' it would be your contention that I could not at some future point repent and
    turn back to Jesus?

    Nemesio
  10. Standard memberNemesio
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    06 Oct '07 21:36
    Originally posted by epic0002
    These verses are more likely demonstrating an impossible situation, because if it were possible then Christ would have to die again. Salvation is not of our ability but of Christ’s sacrifice.
    It doesn't say that, though. It clearly says that 'it is impossible restore again to repentence those
    who have once been enlightened...and then have fallen away...' I can quote the whole passage
    in Greek with transliteration if you need further evidence.

    For it to mean what you are claiming, it would have to say that it is impossible to fall once one
    has been enlightened. However, it clearly says nothing of the sort.

    Nemesio
  11. Illinois
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    07 Oct '07 01:062 edits
    Originally posted by Von Sulla
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t
    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
    This passage is not speaking of God's inability or unwillingness to pardon such people, rather it is referring specifically to those who openly renounce Jesus Christ out of pure enmity. The extreme degree of disavowal which the author of Hebrews is referring to here is such that it is "impossible ... to restore them again to repentance," in that they are literally holding Christ up to contempt and wholeheartedly agreeing with His persecutors.

    If you repent and return to Christ you are not bound for eternal damnation, no matter how grievously you feel you have sinned against Him. There is no limit to God's grace in Christ Jesus. "But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).
  12. weedhopper
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    07 Oct '07 01:23
    Originally posted by epic0002
    These verses are more likely demonstrating an impossible situation, because if it were possible then Christ would have to die again. Salvation is not of our ability but of Christ’s sacrifice.
    What she said. I'm pleased to say I couldn't agree more.
  13. weedhopper
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    07 Oct '07 01:26
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What exactly do you mean by a recovering Christian?
    Going to church has nothing to do with your salvation.
    Your salvation depends on how well you have followed the teachings of Christ. There is no commandment of Christ to go to church.
    Your salvation is from grace through faith alone. It has nothing to do with your deeds of following anything. Even a "boor" should know that!😀
  14. Joined
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    07 Oct '07 04:04
    Originally posted by Von Sulla
    As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

    "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t ...[text shortened]...
    Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
    Get yourself a Recovery Version New Testament with footnotes:

    www.biblesforamerica.org

    Many people once they start to study the footnotes of difficult passages literally cannot put it down for the whole night.

    They'll send you one free. But it is worth the price. Start with reading the passage you have in question with the related footnotes.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Oct '07 06:22
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Your salvation is from grace through faith alone. It has nothing to do with your deeds of following anything. Even a "boor" should know that!😀
    Christ spoke at length about salvation and how to attain it but I cant seem to find the verse where he said ..... Your salvation is from grace through faith alone. It has nothing to do with your deeds of following anything ..." .

    I guess he was a boor like me. 😀
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