Hebrews 6 - Am I screwed?

Originally posted by Von Sulla
As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t
Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?

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Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
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You do not join the church the way you join a club. You are "born" into the Christian church. The method of joining is re-birth. You are regenerated into the mystical body of Christ by receving the divine life of Christ.

So first understand this well. Being in the church is a matter of you having the life of the Son of God.

Now the passage of which you speak is only one of many which indicate some kind of negative consequence can meet reborn Christians if they fails to mature wants having been reborn into the church. In the book of Hebrews there are five such serious warnings:

First Warning - 2:1-2
Second Warning - 3:7 - 4:13
Third Warning - 5:11 - 6:20 (the one of which you speak)
Fourth Warning - 10:19-39
Fifth Warning - 12:1 - 29

None of these five warnings in the book of Hebrews concerns the lost of eternal redemption. Once you are born of God you cannot be "unborn" of God. What you are born again it is impossible for you to be unborn again.

So then, what do these warnings refer to since they can be so sobering?

They refer to the loss of reward in the coming millennial kingdom.

When Christ returns the age of eternity does not immediately begin. There is an intervening period of at least 1,000 years before the eternal age begins. Read Revelation chapter 20 and count the number of times it says "thousand years"

After the period of 1,000 years the age of eternity commences. Because God in His foreknowledge and wisdom, knows that some believers will not cooperate in the age of grace, He placed the age of the millennial kingdom BEFORE the eternal age as an incentive to cooperate.

Some believers will be rewarded in the millennial kingdom to reign with Christ and enjoy the restored earth. These are called those "who overcome" or may be called "overcomers" for short. Those who failed to overcome are defeated. They are saved for eternity but they are defeated as to the reward of the millennial kingdom.

The warning that you are concerned about is a warning of the loss of the reward not the loss of the gift. Etenal redemption is a gift in grace. Reigning in the 1,000 year millennial kingdom is a reward.

This has been a very concise response to your question. We are writing posts here and not books. If this concisesness still leaves you in question point out to me which sentence/s leave you in question about the matter. Then I may elaborate further.

Originally posted by epic0002
These verses are more likely demonstrating an impossible situation, because if it were possible then Christ would have to die again. Salvation is not of our ability but of Christ’s sacrifice.

I thought this was a good answer.

Originally posted by serigado
No, that's just another sentence to spread fear. Don't take everything literally.

I thought this was a worthless answer and kind of expected.

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, it is then possible for someone to do something so horrible that there can be no repenting?
If I knowingly curse the name of Jesus and deny Him and His teachings and His Church and so
forth while spitting, burning a cross and urinating on a Bible -- that is, doing all the things I could
do to 'fall all the way,' it would be your contention that I could not at some future point repent and
turn back to Jesus?

Nemesio

If I knowingly curse the name of Jesus and deny Him and His teachings and His Church and so
forth while spitting, burning a cross and urinating on a Bible -- that is, doing all the things I could
do to 'fall all the way,' it would be your contention that I could not at some future point repent and
turn back to Jesus?

Nemesio------


Remember that jesus said all sorts of things said against him could be forgiven. However, Let's say you had lived with Christ and you knew 1000% that he was the son of God . Not only this you also knew his love in your heart and what he stood for and the fact he had died for you. If you then deliberately and willfully turned against him and worked to cause hate , death and mistrust of Christ (whilst knowing that you were siding with the enemy / evil) then you would have so damaged your soul and seared your conscience that it's unlikely you would even feel sorry for what you had done because it you did you would not have done it. You would not be able to "come back to repentance" because a key part of your soul would have been crushed beyond recognition. It's not about whether you are "allowed" to come back to repentance but whether you are able to.

Having said this you might curse the name of christ without really knowing what you are doing , because you don't really know who he is.

Originally posted by knightmeister
My answer would be emphatically no. If you had fully fallen away then God would not be able to bring you back. In any case , you may have just fallen away from the church but not Christ himself. Infact you may not have fallen much at all and the enemy is just trying to make you think there is no point in recovery. The question is what does "fallen away o taste in his glory" I'm not sure this quote is word perfect but you get the gist of it?

I thought knightmiester's reply was helpful also.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Obviously, this verse was intended for some purpose. Obviously, some Christians were
falling away and trying to return.

What criteria for falling away and trying to return would you say applies for this verse?

Nemesio

erased

Originally posted by Von Sulla
As a recovering Christian, I've recently become curious about this passage:

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to t ...[text shortened]...
Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?

The beauty of these achingly brief three verses is how much confusion and self-induced pain they have inadvertently caused... backsliding believers. Whenever a believer wants to return to the warmth from the fire of salvation certainty, they almost always must first pass through the icy gauntlet of angst-ridden doubt:

they doubt they were sincere;
they doubt they said the right magic words;
they doubt they believed enough;
they doubt they had right action;
they doubt they were really saved, etc., etc.

In reality, they are doubting the sufficiency of what God did in the first place. Was it sincerity that saved them? No. Was it magic words? No. Was it the amount of faith? No. Was it any action they had performed? No. The work of salvation is performed by God, not man. Man's sole and only contribution to the formula is non-meritorious faith. Faith, and nothing more.

However, passages such as this one in Hebrews (and pretty much anything from James) have acted as bouncers at the door of assuredness, effectively blocking self-confidence from entering the gates.

Originally posted by knightmeister
It's not about whether you are "allowed" to come back to repentance but whether you are able to.

You have an irritating habit of not answering the question posed to you, but instead expounding
(distracting) on another issue. I will ask it more succinctly again:

Is there any way one can 'fall all the way' (your words) such that it is impossible to come to
repentence? Unlike what you posited, it doesn't say that someone who falls will not ever
strive to come back; obviously, this passage is specifically for those trying to re-repent.

I can offer the Greek if you think that this would be helpful.

Nemesio

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The beauty of these achingly brief three verses is how much confusion and self-induced pain they have inadvertently caused... backsliding believers. Whenever a believer wants to return to the warmth from the fire of salvation certainty, they almost always must first pass through the icy gauntlet of angst-ridden doubt:

they doubt they were sincere;
...[text shortened]... ncers at the door of assuredness, effectively blocking self-confidence from entering the gates.

What you write is very elegant, actually. However, I don't see how it relates to the passage.
The passage talks about how it is impossible for a backslider to return. Could you elaborate?

Nemesio

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================
Does this mean that even if I return to the Church, I'm still bound for eternal damnation?
==========================

You do not join the church the way you join a club. You are "born" into the Christian church. The method of joining is re-birth. You are regenerated into the mystical body of Christ by receving the di ...[text shortened]... hich sentence/s leave you in question about the matter. Then I may elaborate further.[/b]

I don't agree at all, but it's a totally new perspective for me on this passage. Thanks Jaywill.

Nemesio

the bible says that there is only one unforgivable sin, that is to blaspheme the holy spirit on the day of judgement.

Originally posted by Nemesio
You have an irritating habit of not answering the question posed to you, but instead expounding
(distracting) on another issue. I will ask it more succinctly again:

Is there any way one can 'fall all the way' (your words) such that it is impossible to come to
repentence? Unlike what you posited, it doesn't say that someone who falls will not ev ...[text shortened]... ng to re-repent.

I can offer the Greek if you think that this would be helpful.

Nemesio

obviously, this passage is specifically for those trying to re-repent.
NEMESIO--

It's not obvious..that's the point.

In any case , if a man is able to come to full repentance then he will be forgiven , period. The problem is that one can only come to true repentance under God's power and influence , not by your own steam. Therefore , if someone has rejected God completely they have cut themselves loose from the ability to repent. Repentance is a gift of God. Once you understand this then it's fairly simple. I stand by what I have said. I have answered your question , but just not in the way you wanted me to because in order to answer it (and this will sound patronising so I apologise beforehand) I have to educate you first.

Notice that the passage says "impossible to be brought back to repentance" - it does not say "impossible to be forgiven" , which is what I guess you wanted it to say so you have a swipe at something or other.

Originally posted by Nemesio
I don't agree at all, but it's a totally new perspective for me on this passage. Thanks Jaywill.

Nemesio

Nemesio,

It is rare that you agree with me. At least it seems so sometimes.

Thanks for thinking to thank!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ spoke at length about salvation and how to attain it but I cant seem to find the verse where he said ..... Your salvation is from grace through faith alone. It has nothing to do with your deeds of following anything ..." .

I guess he was a boor like me. 😀

Hardly. Christ was far more eloquent. Paul said it the best way a human can--you know the "not by works, lest any man should boast" thing? But Christ loves all of us: even boors who won't admit it when they are wrong.

So as an atheist, have I back-slidden far enough or must I go further? What must I do to ensure that God will never come after me again?