Originally posted by vistesd Nice to disagree with you! 🙂
Imagine an actor on a stage: if he delivers all his lines in the same tone of voice, with the same (perhaps deadpan) expression on his face, with exactly the same (or no) physical gestures—we might read the same import into every statement, whether he was talking about the taste of his food at supper or requirements for ete ...[text shortened]... I meant that tongue-in-cheek"? So, we see what can happen on here when reading simple text...
Originally posted by Jay Joos Your eyes allow you to see sin and then the mind registers it...if you were to cut out your eyes you would be unable to see sin so your mind would not be corrupted.... so he said its better to lose one part of your body than the WHOLE of it to be cast into hell....... think about it more....c'mon!!!!
There you go again, contradicting yourself. You are now saying that you should cut your eyes out. Let me know when they are out.
Originally posted by twhitehead There you go again, contradicting yourself. You are now saying that you should cut your eyes out. Let me know when they are out.
I am not contradicting... i have said,if you would only read my past posts that Jesus is referring to saving yourself from sin not to literally harm yourself,also,the mind causes sin as i have said not the eyes but im not going to cut my brain out...........
Originally posted by Jay Joos I am not contradicting... i have said,if you would only read my past posts that Jesus is referring to saving yourself from sin not to literally harm yourself,also,the mind causes sin as i have said not the eyes but im not going to cut my brain out...........
There you go again! Contradicting yourself. Read your own words again:
Originally posted by Jay Joos ...if you were to cut out your eyes you would be unable to see sin so your mind would not be corrupted.... so he said its better to lose one part of your body than the WHOLE of it to be cast into hell.....
and you agree with knightmeister:
Originally posted by Jay Joos .. i was clear and Knight meister agreed with me...
So why exactly have you not cut your eyes out? You have stated categorically that it would be better to do so.
Originally posted by vistesd Nice to disagree with you! 🙂
Imagine an actor on a stage: if he delivers all his lines in the same tone of voice, with the same (perhaps deadpan) expression on his face, with exactly the same (or no) physical gestures—we might read the same import into every statement, whether he was talking about the taste of his food at supper or requirements for ete ...[text shortened]... I meant that tongue-in-cheek"? So, we see what can happen on here when reading simple text...
I take no pleasure in disagreeing with you Vistesd, because I know I am likely to get clobbered ... but here goes .. 🙁
The mind controls the body parts, but CHrist knew very well that the mind can be the weakest part of the body. I wont quote verses as I think we all know the Bible well enough. There are long lists of evil that proceeds from the mind and Christ, knowing that we are weak-minded advised removing the offending member of the body IFF we cannot control that part. EG suppose a man has a problem with being uncontrolably violent, wont he be more likely to stay out of trouble if he had no hands?
Christ was the most radical of thinkers but whatever He said made perfect sense. ... Remove all obstacles to salvation.
Cutting off family members and getting rid of money and property might be taken by many to be metaphorical as well.
Originally posted by twhitehead There you go again! Contradicting yourself. Read your own words again:
Originally posted by Jay Joos [b]...if you were to cut out your eyes you would be unable to see sin so your mind would not be corrupted.... so he said its better to lose one part of your body than the WHOLE of it to be cast into hell.....
and you agree with knightmeiste ...[text shortened]... have you not cut your eyes out? You have stated categorically that it would be better to do so.[/b]
Now you're just being obstinate... what a pleasant departure. Here are two little letters with a very decisive meaning: if.
If your hands, your eyes, your devotion to family, your love of money, your lust for peanut butter were such that you were totally distracted from salvation, it would be better to cut off, gouge out, repulse, eschew, abstain... rather than miss out on salvation.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH Now you're just being obstinate... what a pleasant departure. Here are two little letters with a very decisive meaning: if.
[b]If your hands, your eyes, your devotion to family, your love of money, your lust for peanut butter were such that you were totally distracted from salvation, it would be better to cut off, gouge out, repulse, eschew, abstain... rather than miss out on salvation.[/b]
So, I must assume that either you have gouged your eyes out, or you believe that your eyes will not cause you to be totally distracted from salvation. If the latter, then why the whole scenario in the first place. Why say if when you know it cant happen?
Besides, Jesus did not say "totally distracted from salvation", he said "causes you to sin".
Originally posted by twhitehead So, I must assume that either you have gouged your eyes out, or you believe that your eyes will not cause you to be totally distracted from salvation. If the latter, then why the whole scenario in the first place. Why say [b]if when you know it cant happen?
Besides, Jesus did not say "totally distracted from salvation", he said "causes you to sin".[/b]
Well, at least you're cracking a Bible open. Now, since you've jumped right in, tell me what your thoughts are on the word sin. Specifically, when the Lord Jesus Christ uses the word here, what did He mean?
Originally posted by twhitehead So, I must assume that either you have gouged your eyes out, or you believe that your eyes will not cause you to be totally distracted from salvation. If the latter, then why the whole scenario in the first place. Why say [b]if when you know it cant happen?
Besides, Jesus did not say "totally distracted from salvation", he said "causes you to sin".[/b]
You are misquoting Jesus, I believe you will find the word "if" in there
so that he is drawing out the importance of salvation verses eye sight.
Kelly
Originally posted by Rajk999 I take no pleasure in disagreeing with you Vistesd, because I know I am likely to get clobbered ... but here goes .. 🙁
The mind controls the body parts, but CHrist knew very well that the mind can be the weakest part of the body. I wont quote verses as I think we all know the Bible well enough. There are long lists of evil that proceeds from the mind and ...[text shortened]... members and getting rid of money and property might be taken by many to be metaphorical as well.
EG suppose a man has a problem with being uncontrolably violent, wont he be more likely to stay out of trouble if he had no hands?
Wouldn’t a bi-frontal lobotomy be more effective? (They don’t still do those, do they? Doesn’t seem like something Jesus would recommend.) You have prevented the man from hurting others with his hands; you have not cured the violence. With a lobotomy, you might “cure” the violent tendencies, but at the loss of much of the mind (and in a Christian context, the soul).*
Nobody’s going to get “clobbered” here; we’re just at an impasse I think.
* Yes, I know that the lobotomy counter-example is mine; and wasn’t yours. 🙂
Originally posted by twhitehead There you go again! Contradicting yourself. Read your own words again:
Originally posted by Jay Joos [b]...if you were to cut out your eyes you would be unable to see sin so your mind would not be corrupted.... so he said its better to lose one part of your body than the WHOLE of it to be cast into hell.....
and you agree with knightmeiste ...[text shortened]... have you not cut your eyes out? You have stated categorically that it would be better to do so.[/b]
Unbelievably you are still at it. The game continues. My guess is that you know that Jesus was not reccomending we cut our eyes out literally. For a start it would contrary to the teaching on treating the body with respect or "as a temple of the Holy Spirit". I don't see what the fuss is about to be honest. Jesus uses irony and satire very well here. He knows the image of cutting your eyes out will get people's attention and what he is trying to communicate is the seriousness with which we must treat sin.He's basically saying "don't mess with sin it's a bit like spiritual gangrene , you have to be a bit ruthless sometimes and chop it away , otherwise it will take you over and pollute you"
BTW- Do you suppose that when he said we should be as "gentle as doves and wise as serpents" that we should chop our legs off or grow wings??LOL.
No wonder you always accuse Christians of being disingenuousness and playing games , you thrive on it yourself!
Originally posted by vistesd I actually think Epiphenehas is (partially) correct on this one. After all, what we have are written accounts probably at least partly fashioned from a few years of oral stories (e.g., the so-called “Q” source). When the stories were being transmitted orally, they may have been acted out to an extent, as storytellers are wont to do. Jesus himself may have ...[text shortened]... ling his eyes while he was at it.
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😉 😛 😕 🙄
It's refreshing to find we have actually agreed on something! 😉
Originally posted by twhitehead There you go again! Contradicting yourself. Read your own words again:
Originally posted by Jay Joos [b]...if you were to cut out your eyes you would be unable to see sin so your mind would not be corrupted.... so he said its better to lose one part of your body than the WHOLE of it to be cast into hell.....
and you agree with knightmeiste ...[text shortened]... have you not cut your eyes out? You have stated categorically that it would be better to do so.[/b]
I was trying to say that the mind corrupts not the eyes,i would not cut my eyes out as there are far more beautiful things in this world to see....i was explaining that the mind corrupts you not the eyes!
I think i have gone about as far as i can go with this with you!
Hebrews 6 - Am I screwed?
12 Oct '07 07:38
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