1. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 18:48
    How can a Good God send people to hell?

    I have often heard this question asked.

    The problem is that this question assumes that God sends people to hell against their will. But this is not the case. God desires everyone to be saved. (2 Peter 3:9). Those who are not saved do not will to be saved. Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often have I longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing" (Matthew 23:37).

    As C.S. Lewis put it, "The door of hell is locked from the inside." All those who go there choose to do so. Lewis added: "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'Thy will be done'. All that are in hell choose it." Lewis believed "without that self-choice there could be no hell. No soul that seriously and continuously desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened."

    Furthermore, heaven would be hell for those who are not fitted for it. For heaven is a place of constant praise and worship of God (Revelation 4-5). But for unbelievers who do not enjoy one hour of worship a week on earth, it would be hell to force them to do it forever in Heaven! Hear Lewis again: "I would pay any price to be able to say truthfully 'All will be saved.' But my reason resorts, 'Without their will, or with it?' If I say 'Without their will," I at once perceive a contradiction; how can the supreme voluntary act of self-surrender be involuntary? If I say, 'With their will,' my reason replies, 'How if they will not give in?'"

    God is just and he must punish sin (Habakkuk 1:13; Revelation 20:11-15). But he is also love (1 John 4:16), and his love cannot force others to love him. Love cannot work coercively but only persuasively. Forced love is a contradiction in terms. Hence, God's love demands that there be a hell where persons who do not wish to love him can experience the great divorce when God says to them, "Thy will be done!"
  2. Donationkirksey957
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    02 Sep '06 18:56
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b] How can a Good God send people to hell?

    I have often heard this question asked.

    The problem is that this question assumes that God sends people to hell against their will. But this is not the case. God desires everyone to be saved. (2 Peter 3:9). Those who are not saved do not will to be saved. Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who ki ...[text shortened]... perience the great divorce when God says to them, "Thy will be done!"[/b]
    Do you think the Jews will burn in hell?
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Sep '06 18:56
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    [b] How can a Good God send people to hell?

    I have often heard this question asked.

    The problem is that this question assumes that God sends people to hell against their will. But this is not the case. God desires everyone to be saved. (2 Peter 3:9). Those who are not saved do not will to be saved. Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who ki ...[text shortened]... perience the great divorce when God says to them, "Thy will be done!"[/b]
    Can somebody already in hell choose to leave and go to heaven?
  4. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 19:03
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Do you think the Jews will burn in hell?
    I believe that all people that reject Christ will not be partaking of Heaven with Him by their own free will.
  5. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 19:051 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Can somebody already in hell choose to leave and go to heaven?
    I believe my answer lies in my first post.

    Edit: I find nothing in the Sciptures that indicates that this is possible.
  6. Donationkirksey957
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    02 Sep '06 19:09
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I believe that all people that reject Christ will not be partaking of Heaven with Him by their own free will.
    This would make a great post in the clan forums to taunt the Jewish clan.
  7. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 19:15
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    This would make a great post in the clan forums to taunt the Jewish clan.
    It is not my intention to taunt people that share a different worldview to my own.
  8. Standard memberDavid C
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    02 Sep '06 19:18
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Hence, God's love demands that there be a hell where persons who do not wish to love him can experience the great divorce when God says to them, "Thy will be done!"
    I agree totally, deej. However, since Allah's Mercy is only granted to those who believe in The Great Prophet (May He Live Forever!), looks like you and I are headed for the same place. Shall we meet for some OTB once we get there? I'll bet there a nice outdoor cafe with a view of the Lake.
  9. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 19:262 edits
    Originally posted by David C
    I agree totally, deej. However, since Allah's Mercy is only granted to those who believe in The Great Prophet (May He Live Forever!), looks like you and I are headed for the same place. Shall we meet for some OTB once we get there? I'll bet there a nice outdoor cafe with a view of the Lake.
    Would you care to ellaborate on the evidence that suggests that the Quar'an is the word of God?

    Edit: I assume from your above statement that you regard the Quar'an to be true and the Bible to be false in their claims as being the devine revelation of God to mankind?

    Btw: Most Muslims would be in the same boat as you, as they cannot possible have an absolute assurance of their Salvation.
  10. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Sep '06 19:33
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I believe my answer lies in my first post.

    Edit: I find nothing in the Sciptures that indicates that this is possible.
    Then what is the propositional content of the claim that hell's door is locked from the inside?
  11. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 19:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Then what is the propositional content of the claim that hell's door is locked from the inside?
    I gather that when Lewis said, "The door of hell is locked on the inside," he meant that all who go there choose to do so.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Sep '06 19:56
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    I gather that when Lewis said, "The door of hell is locked on the inside," he meant that all who go there choose to do so.
    He's a better writer than that. His choice of words does not express the putative meaning you suggest.

    For one, if the lock is on the inside, how could people on the outside open the door to get in?
  13. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 20:061 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    He's a better writer than that. His choice of words does not express the putative meaning you suggest.

    For one, if the lock is on the inside, how could people on the outside open the door to get in?
    He's a better writer than that. His choice of words does not express the putative meaning you suggest.

    Why don't you read "The Abolition of Man". You will find this part on p.69. Then maybe you can shead some light on what you think he meant.

    For one, if the lock is on the inside, how could people on the outside open the door to get in?

    I would just like to point out that the lock of a door need not be on the inside for it to be locked from the inside. Have you ever used a key to lock or unlock a door?
  14. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    02 Sep '06 20:11
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Have you ever used a key to lock or unlock a door?
    Everytime I have, the lock was on my side. That's just what a lock means.
  15. Standard memberdj2becker
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    02 Sep '06 20:19
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Everytime I have, the lock was on my side. That's just what a lock means.
    Are you not assuming that there is only one key?
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