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Originally posted by David CIn order for your words to have any meaning to me, you have to demonstrate to me why the Quar'an is true and the Bible is false.
I agree totally, deej. However, since Allah's Mercy is only granted to those who believe in The Great Prophet (May He Live Forever!), looks like you and I are headed for the same place. Shall we meet for some OTB once we get there? I'll bet there a nice outdoor cafe with a view of the Lake.
I could easily demonstrate why I believe the Bible and not the Quar'an.
Originally posted by dj2beckerIs God punishing people, by putting them in hell against their will, or are they punishing themselves, by putting themselves voluntarily in hell?
[b] How can a Good God send people to hell?
I have often heard this question asked.
The problem is that this question assumes that God sends people to hell against their will. But this is not the case. God desires everyone to be saved. (2 Peter 3:9). Those who are not saved do not will to be saved. Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who ki ...[text shortened]... perience the great divorce when God says to them, "Thy will be done!"[/b]
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThat would be assuming that they are the only beings on the inside.
The metaphor doesn't make a lick of sense if the door is locked from the inside yet the people on the inside cannot unlock the door.
My Bible tells me that hell was origionally prepared for the Devil and his angels.
They might actually want some company and "deprive the entrants of their keys" once they have "locked themselves in" as it were.
Originally posted by dj2beckerWhy should it be too late for a soul to repent after death?
That would be assuming that they are the only beings on the inside.
My Bible tells me that hell was origionally prepared for the Devil and his angels.
They might actually want some company and "deprive the entrants of their keys" once they have "locked themselves in" as it were.
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Originally posted by PawnokeyholeI believe the answer lies in God's love and his justice.
Is God punishing people, by putting them in hell against their will, or are they punishing themselves, by putting themselves voluntarily in hell?
God is just and must punnish sin. But He is also loving and must forgive sin. God is both absolutely just and unconditionally loving. Each attribute complements the other. God is "justly holy" and "holy just." That is, his justice is administered in love, and his love is distributed justly.
The perfect example of how God's love and justice kiss is in the cross. In his love, God sent his Son to pay the penalty for our sins so that his justice could be satisfied and his love released. For "the wages of sin is death. So when Christ died for our sins the Just suffered for the unjust that he might bring us to God. "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2Cor 5:21)
God's justice demands that sin be punnished, but his love compels him to save sinners. So by Christ's death on the cross, his justice is satisfied and his love released. God is like a judge who, after passing out the punnishment for the guilty defendant, laid aside his robe, stood alongside the convicted, and paid the fine for him. Jesus did the same for us on Calvary.
A person that goes to hell is one who rejects God's love and meets up with his justice.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesMay I, playing devil's (or God's) advocate, suggest as reason?
Why should it be too late for a soul to repent after death?
After death, it would become obvious that being with God was highly desirable, and being without him highly undesirable. Thus, there would be little room for loving God freely, what He most desires: the contingencies for obeying Him would be obvious.
However, before death, it would not yet be obvious that being with God is highly desirable, and being without him highly undesirable. Hence, there would be plenty of room to love him freely.
So, we get a limited time opportunity during which to freely demonstrate our love for Him. If we don't, we get royally screwed; but if we do, we get to spend eternity with people like RBHILL.
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAs your question assumes a moral law, you are automatically assuming a moral lawgiver. As I believe God is the moral lawgiver, I take his word for it.
Why should it be too late for a soul to repent after death?
The Bible says that it is appointed unto Man once to die and thereafter the Judgement.
Originally posted by dj2beckerI don't think X can forgive Y for doing Z and then punish Y for doing Z. That makes no sense.
I believe the answer lies in God's love and his justice.
God is just and must punnish sin. But He is also loving and must forgive sin. God is both absolutely just and unconditionally loving. Each attribute complements the other. God is "justly holy" and "holy just." That is, his justice is administered in love, and his love is distributed justly.
The ...[text shortened]... erson that goes to hell is one who rejects God's love and meets up with his justice.
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Originally posted by dj2beckerStating that God arranged matters thus does is not the same as stating a moral reason for why he arranged matter thus.
As your question assumes a moral law, you are automatically assuming a moral lawgiver. As I believe God is the moral lawgiver, I take his word for it.
The Bible says that it is appointed unto Man once to die and thereafter the Judgement.
Please make an effort to think of a moral reason God might have had for making it impossible for a soul to repent after death.
Originally posted by dj2beckerCould you just pick one of the two options I listed, or suggest another?
I believe the answer lies in God's love and his justice.
God is just and must punnish sin. But He is also loving and must forgive sin. God is both absolutely just and unconditionally loving. Each attribute complements the other. God is "justly holy" and "holy just." That is, his justice is administered in love, and his love is distributed justly.
The ...[text shortened]... erson that goes to hell is one who rejects God's love and meets up with his justice.
Originally posted by dj2beckerYes it does. The point holds for all non-nonsensical X, Y, and Z.
It will obviously not make sense if you do not define X,Y and Z.
If you don't think so, give me one counterexample of a person forgiving someone for doing something and then going on to punish them for doing something.
Anybody who claims that this is possible is similarly not familiar with the everyday meaning of the words "forgive" and "punish".