1. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 12:38
    I believe that God created man, earth, universe etc etc. The Bible is the only proof I have that tells me that God has created everything on earth.

    Some of you dont believe, and some will believe.

    How do you believe it all begun?
  2. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    07 Oct '05 12:56
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    I believe that God created man, earth, universe etc etc. The Bible is the only proof I have that tells me that God has created everything on earth.

    Some of you dont believe, and some will believe.

    How do you believe it all begun?
    How is the Bible proof?

    If something is proof, you don't have to believe in it.
    But the Bible is something you have to believe in.
    Therefore the Bible cannot be proof.

    It may not have all begun. If God can be eternally subsistent, then why can't the universe too?Why the eternal subsistence of the former less puzzling that the eternal subsistence of the latter?

    In my view, it's all either an impenetrable mystery or not even a meaningful question.
  3. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 13:43
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    How is the Bible proof?

    If something is proof, you don't have to believe in it.
    But the Bible is something you have to believe in.
    Therefore the Bible cannot be proof.

    It may not have all begun. If God can be eternally subsistent, then why can't the universe too?Why the eternal subsistence of the former less puzzling that the eternal subsisten ...[text shortened]... tter?

    In my view, it's all either an impenetrable mystery or not even a meaningful question.
    If something is proof, you don't have to believe in it.

    You are right, if something is proof, you don't have to believe in it. I think the reason why "believing in the Word of God" is called that way, is that people cannot see God, therefor, He wants us to believe in Him, believing in the Word, makes us believe in Him.

    Thats my point of view.

    I dont think that the universe and all that will come to an end. I think the way of living in the present will come to an end. God will come down and live with us for a 1000 years on earth. As far as I am concerned, hell is under the earth. If hell is gonna last eternal, so would the earth.
  4. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 14:11
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    [b]If something is proof, you don't have to believe in it.

    You are right, if something is proof, you don't have to believe in it. I think the reason why "believing in the Word of God" is called that way, is that people cannot see God, therefor, He wants us to believe in Him, believing in the Word, makes us believe in Him.

    Thats my point of vie ...[text shortened]... r as I am concerned, hell is under the earth. If hell is gonna last eternal, so would the earth.[/b]
    So how is the Bible proof then?
  5. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 14:31
    Originally posted by darvlay
    So how is the Bible proof then?
    Let me think about it and give you a answer over the weekend?
  6. Joined
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    07 Oct '05 14:32
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    Let me think about it and give you a answer over the weekend?
    Don't bother. You won't find one.
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    07 Oct '05 14:33
    Originally posted by darvlay
    So how is the Bible proof then?
    For all we know, the Bible could have been written by Satan. That might account for its imperfection.
  8. Standard memberHalitose
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    07 Oct '05 14:51
    Originally posted by Nicolaas
    [b]If something is proof, you don't have to believe in it.

    You are right, if something is proof, you don't have to believe in it. I think the reason why "believing in the Word of God" is called that way, is that people cannot see God, therefor, He wants us to believe in Him, believing in the Word, makes us believe in Him.

    Thats my point of vie ...[text shortened]... r as I am concerned, hell is under the earth. If hell is gonna last eternal, so would the earth.[/b]
    As far as I am concerned, hell is under the earth.

    The earth is round, so which way is under? Or do you still believe the earth is flat?
  9. Hamelin: RAT-free
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    07 Oct '05 14:54
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    For all we know, the Bible could have been written by Satan. That might account for its imperfection.
    Wow! A two-liner for a change!

    Imperfection? By whose standards?
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    07 Oct '05 15:36
    Originally posted by RatX

    Imperfection? By whose standards?
    Nowadays I leave the long posts for the clever people.

    The standards of those who find it imperfect. By the same token, if the Bible is true, it would not matter if it were Satan's doing.
  11. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    07 Oct '05 15:40
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    For all we know, the Bible could have been written by Satan. That might account for its imperfection.
    Speaking of imperfection, here is an ontological argument for the non-existence of the devil.

    A: The devil is the worst possible being.
    B: Non-existence is worse than existence.
    C: Therefore, a non-existing being X, with all other possible imperfections, is worse than an existing being Y, with all other possible imperfections.

    D: Therefore X is the devil, and he doesn't exist.

    The same argument can be applied to hell, the worst of all possible places.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    07 Oct '05 15:55
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Speaking of imperfection, here is an ontological argument for the non-existence of the devil.

    A: The devil is the worst possible being.
    B: Non-existence is worse than existence.
    C: Therefore, a non-existing being X, with all other possible imperfections, is worse than an existing being Y, with all other possible imperfections.

    D: Therefore X is ...[text shortened]... e doesn't exist.

    The same argument can be applied to hell, the worst of all possible places.
    Sometimes in this forum I just can't tell. Are you presenting this as a serious argument or as satire?
  13. Donationbbarr
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    07 Oct '05 15:56
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Speaking of imperfection, here is an ontological argument for the non-existence of the devil.

    A: The devil is the worst possible being.
    B: Non-existence is worse than existence.
    C: Therefore, a non-existing being X, with all other possible imperfections, is worse than an existing being Y, with all other possible imperfections.

    D: Therefore X is ...[text shortened]... e doesn't exist.

    The same argument can be applied to hell, the worst of all possible places.
    Excellent, I was dreading running across the worst possible beer. Now I know it doesn't (can't!) exist.
  14. Donationbbarr
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    07 Oct '05 15:57
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Sometimes in this forum I just can't tell. Are you presenting this as a serious argument or as satire?
    Oh, come on! It's a mock-up of Anselm.
  15. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    07 Oct '05 16:002 edits
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Oh, come on! It's a mock-up of Anselm.
    Is it better or worse than the worst Anselm mock-up I could ever see? I know it can't be the worst.
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