11 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by NicolaasAaaarrrrgggghhhhh. If I hear the word "proof" one more time my head will implode, and that will really mess up my day. The reason I say this is that I am currently back in school studying Mathematics, and in Math when they say "proof" they mean it. A proof is a meticulously constructed argument that shows the statement in question must absolutely be true--there is no way for the statement to be false. When you, Nicolaas, say "proof," is this what you mean? Does the Bible argue in favor of your belief, or does it just outline that said belief for you? How does the Bible actually encourage your faith? You say you have to believe first before the Bible can be proof. However, the main reason for a proof to exist it to convince, to propel a consciousness out of the darkness of confusion and into the light of reason. How can the Bible do that if you must already be out of the darkness (aka believe) before you see that the Bible is a way out of the darkness? It seems to me that the Bible is pretty useless other than for offering vague inspiration and some pretty good moralistic stories.
To me, I do have proof of God, and that is the Bible. But that is my proof, and not yours.
I have tried thousands and thousands of times to explain the Bible and even when someone asked me for a Bible (even on RHP) I said I'll send one, but they never gave an address. That is sooo frustrating but anyway, we just have two different views.
Neither vie ...[text shortened]... ts us think about God.
Now i know i well get alot of critism on that, but i dont mind at all.
Here's the big question that I've asked so many times to various Christians on this site and never gotten a satisfactory answer: Could you be a Christian without the Bible? Could you reconnect with God without a man-made text to guide you? You seem to suggest that you certainly can, for you have to believe in Xianity before you can understand the Bible. If this is true, what is the Bible for? Where exactly does belief begin?
11 Oct 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulAmen, sir.
Here's the big question that I've asked so many times to various Christians on this site and never gotten a satisfactory answer: Could you be a Christian without the Bible?...If this is true, what is the Bible for? Where exactly does belief begin?
18 Oct 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulDear thesonofsaul
Aaaarrrrgggghhhhh. If I hear the word "proof" one more time my head will implode, and that will really mess up my day. The reason I say this is that I am currently back in school studying Mathematics, and in Math when they say "proof" they mean it. A proof is a meticulously constructed argument that shows the statement in question must absolutely ...[text shortened]... understand the Bible. If this is true, what is the Bible for? Where exactly does belief begin?
This is my personal point of view...
A Christian is a person that believes in God, that belongs to God. Without the Bible (man-made text book) to guide us, we will never know how to follow God and stay within the Commandments. Therefor, no, I dont think you can be Christian without the Bible, cause, God is the Word, and the Word is God.
You are busy studying Maths. Do you believe everyone can do Maths? I dont think so. Most people dont know how to work with Maths, cause I believe that they were not interrested in getting to work things out, getting to know the answers. Its too frustrating and would rather leave it. However, getting your answer right, proofs whatever the question was.
Now, a new Christian cannot keep quiet about his new feelings and discoveries. He knows the answers and wants to share it with others not knowing the answers. This happend to me aswell and most of the times the way we approach others is totally incorrect. Its because some of us dont know how to and that is why people blame Christians for the stuff they do blame us for. Which is our own fault, not God's.
The proof of God creating the earth, humans, animals etc etc, the way we should live, the way we must treat others, the way we must pray, is all written down in the Bible, and is all the proof a Christian needs. Just like you need a Math text book to learn Maths, so do Christians have the Bible (text book) to learn about God. So, yes, for anyone to make you believe that all the answers is in the Bible, dont you have to believe in it first?
The Bible is not only a guide to get you out from darkness, but also a tool to let you stay within the light.
All that God wants is for us to believe, to have faith (some call it blind faith). Believing comes from your heart, not the mind. 😉
20 Oct 05
for those that don't believe that a supreme,unnatural force (god for lack of a name) created what we have evolved into(we ) meaning our science,ability to cognitivly create , the evolution of mankind into it's current state etc for now, then, you should look at a study done in a massachusetts computer lab where a simulation was created with code on the parrell processors that basically worked towards displaying the odds of a planet starting a billion years ago with rock and water( maybe) and limited vegetation subjected to solar winds,degrees of ultra violet light, rays from the sun etc and any other external variables they could put into the computer model and to see if the results through any sort of time frame going foward could possibly produce the world we live in now with it's magnificient machines and scientific accomplishments. the computer produce an amazing answer
20 Oct 05
Originally posted by NicolaasHow is the BIBLE proof?
Especially for darvlay........
To me as a Christian the Bible is proof of everything. It is the proof of God's existance and the proof that He has created earth and everything on it. It is also proof that God has created animals at a specific point in time and later on at another occation, created man. In Genesis God created each animal, each type of ...[text shortened]... ve in evolution, or that science is god, or that God does not exist, cause I dont believe in it.
The Believer has the faith to believe that the BIBLE is true. While the unbeliever searches and fails to disprove the truth of the BIBLE.
21 Oct 05
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI would have to agree with Descartes on this one. He states that even our most "innate" ideas are either produced, acquired, or learned. In fact, he understands this to be true for everything. In other words, for someone to "believe" they would have to know what exactly they believe in, it does not come naturally. They are usually taught what to believe. Many Christians are also taught that one must have faith BEFORE they can truly understand and "believe" in God. How do they get this "faith"? Beats me. My guess is that most Christians acquire this "faith" only after being told that they need to have it in order to believe and trust God and His word. Which would lead us directly back to what Descartes himself believes.
Where exactly does belief begin?
21 Oct 05
Originally posted by NicolaasSo from reading your post I would assume that you would be a proponent for the "Leap of Faith" Argument?
Dear thesonofsaul
This is my personal point of view...
A Christian is a person that believes in God, that belongs to God. Without the Bible (man-made text book) to guide us, we will never know how to follow God and stay within the Commandments. Therefor, no, I dont think you can be Christian without the Bible, cause, God is the Word, and the Word is G ...[text shortened]... eve, to have faith (some call it blind faith). Believing comes from your heart, not the mind. 😉
21 Oct 05
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Originally posted by blindfaith101I think the inherent difference lies in how and where people derive their truth. As a Christian, I (and I'm sure you) derive my moral, religious and ethical "truth" (firstly) from the Bible. When it comes to scientific, mathematical, historical, etc truth I drastically increase my scope to include contemporary studies and literature. When you take Biblical "truth" as proof for science, math etc to somebody who hasn't accepted the Bible as an expression of "truth" it is like banging your head against a brick wall.
would it not be better to say........to You the BIBLE proves nothing
Just my 2 cents on the current topic...
21 Oct 05
Originally posted by HalitoseAre you not more likely to object to some scientific theories precisely because they apparently contradict the Bible (repository of truths)?
As a Christian, I (and I'm sure you) derive my moral, religious and ethical "truth" (firstly) from the Bible. When it comes to scientific, mathematical, historical, etc truth I drastically increase my scope to include contemporary studies and literature.