Originally posted by Proper Knob [b]the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen?
You're wrong here Rob. How can you be unconcious with no brain activity? At death the brain ceases to work, being in an unconcious state still requires brain activity.[/b]
I don't think so, but ok, then how would you like to describe it then my friend? if its not unconsciousness?
yes, it appears to me to me to be akin to a kind of feeling, or a hunch, or i dunno, what would you describe it as? A belief perhaps? But surely our beliefs must have some point of reference, some basis, other than, i believe therefore it is! Perhaps its enough to state i believe, therefore it is. Seems not a little convenient to me though.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie it simply illustrated a principle that i had made and that you had queried, you stated that it was based on speculation, i merely provided a point of reference stating that it was founded, not upon speculation, but upon experience, that is what it has to do with, I am a theist.
The fact that Nazi victims felt comforted by their speculations as they were put to death is good to hear and of course far better than hearing that they felt no comfort of that kind at the end of their lives. But the fact that they were speculating as they died is not an "experience" that proves or disproves anything about what happened to them after they died. I accept that they were theists. As I am.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I don't think so, but ok, then how would you like to describe it then my friend? if its not unconsciousness?
Nothingness would be better i guess.
Do you remember the previous 14.7 billion years of this universes existence you spent in nothingness before you were born? Neither do i, but i know one thing, i wasn't unconcious in that time period.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie yes, it appears to me to me to be akin to a kind of feeling, or a hunch, or i dunno, what would you describe it as? A belief perhaps?
Originally posted by John W Booth The fact that Nazi victims felt comforted by their speculations as they were put to death is good to hear and of course far better than hearing that they felt no comfort of that kind at the end of their lives. But the fact that they were speculating as they died is not an "experience" that proves or disproves anything about what happened to them after they died. I accept that they were theists. As I am.
yes you are correct, it does not prove what actually happened to them.
Originally posted by Proper Knob Nothingness would be better i guess.
Do you remember the previous 14.7 billion years of this universes existence you spent in nothingness before you were born? Neither do i, but i know one thing, i wasn't unconcious in that time period.
ok then can we agree that the dead experience nothingness, that they are conscious of nothing at all (this is what the verse actually says)
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all,. . .
Originally posted by robbie carrobie well ok, but i dunno. . . . it should be substantiated.
But I am not interested in religion so why is there any obligation to "substantiate" my theism? I don't want to join your group. Nor do I want to join vishvahetu's group.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie ok then can we agree that the dead experience nothingness, that they are conscious of nothing at all (this is what the verse actually says)
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all,. . .
Originally posted by John W Booth But I am not interested in religion so why is there any obligation to "substantiate" my theism? I don't want to join your group. Nor do I want to join vishvahetu's group.
ok i understand that, well what about to yourself, what about to others if someone demands a reason for your theism? what shall you say? its simply an unsubstantiated belief?
yes i see now the point was obscured by my bad rendering and clumsy use of language, your keen awareness for propriety soon cleared it up dear Noobster 🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobie ok i understand that, well what about to yourself, what about to others if someone demands a reason for your theism? what shall you say? its simply an unsubstantiated belief?
If someone demands a reason? What are you talking about?
I think I covered it all in the OP.
Why do I have to substantiate my theism? That's the realm of religion and not spirituality, as far as I am concerned. Neither you nor vishvahetu have substantiated your beliefs. Nor do I need you to. Why should I?
Why do you insist on always bringing religion into it?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie yes you are correct, it does not prove what actually happened to them.
That had to be one of the more obtuse attempts to play the Nazi Card against a dissenter that I have ever come across.
what about to others if someone demands a reason for your theism?
Like everyone else, I cannot prove God exists and, not being religious, I feel no need to. No instructions from God of any kind have been communicated to me. I have no idea what happens after death, nor does anyone else I have met my whole life long. I leave the search for a 'meaning of life' by way of speculation and the verbalizing of hopes about an afterlife to those who enjoy religion, something I have no interest in at all. I feel no obligation to persuade anyone else about my theism. So if they 'demand reasons' it simply doesn't matter. I feel no need whatsoever to do what you and vishvahetu do, which is to make assertions and seek to demonstrate certainty.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie because our experience within the death camps illustrates the point that the hope of resurrection is able to transcend death.
Remember, the nazis hated homosexuals as much as Jehovas Witnesses did, and do. The two philosophies agree in this respect.
23 Nov '10 10:28
I am a theist
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