I am a theist

Originally posted by John W Booth
If someone demands a reason? What are you talking about?

I think I covered it all in the OP.

Why do I have to substantiate my theism? That's the realm of religion and not spirituality, as far as I am concerned. Neither you nor vishvahetu have substantiated your beliefs. Nor do I need you to. Why should I?

Why do you insist on always bringing religion into it?

have i stated that you should join the Catholic church, that you must become a Shaolin monk? there is no need to substantiate your theism if you don't want to nor cannot, nor see the need to nor the purpose of. It remains an unsubstantiated belief and practically impotent, for why should it feel the necessity of expression? I deny the claim that my 'form of worship', 'my theism', is unsubstantiated, for i can call on reference, on logic, on reason and on the application of principles that will really help the adherent in their life, it is not a dead belief Mr. Booth, quite the contrary.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Remember, the nazis hated homosexuals as much as Jehovas Witnesses did, and do. The two philosophies agree in this respect.

Remember the Swedes in the volunteer SS divisions, i guess you'd like to forget. Wonder how many Homos and witnesses they put to death? Strange that you seem so adamant to proudly fly their flag? perhaps your relatives were volunteers?

Originally posted by John W Booth
That had to be one of the more obtuse attempts to play the Nazi Card against a dissenter that I have ever come across.

[b]what about to others if someone demands a reason for your theism?

Like everyone else, I cannot prove God exists and, not being religious, I feel no need to. No instructions from God of any kind have been communicated to me. ...[text shortened]... what you and vishvahetu do, which is to make assertions and seek to demonstrate certainty.[/b]

play the Nazi card????, you tosser, we are talking of real people, with real lives, in real situations, with real loved ones, with real mothers and fathers and children. Whats that Mr. Booth, was Robbie able to substantiate his point with a real life episode, an actual even, a happening, well documented and recorded in the annals of history - smell that Mr. Booth, smells like toast.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...there is no need to substantiate your theism if you don't want to nor cannot, nor see the need to nor the purpose of. It remains an unsubstantiated belief and practically impotent, for why should it feel the necessity of expression?

You think your mixture of hope and speculation gives your beliefs potency? I see you squabbling with other people over your ancient texts and your "certainties" on this forum day in, day out, one of the "purposes" of your religiosity perhaps, and yet when I hear you and vishvahetu making your assertions, your beliefs don't strike me as anything but as impotent as each other. My theism is uncluttered and requires no contortions or cultural contexts or Nazi Cards or "things you have read and come to accept".

Originally posted by John W Booth
You think your mixture of hope and speculation gives your beliefs potency? I see you squabbling with other people over your ancient texts and your "certainties" on this forum day in, day out, one of the "purposes" of your religiosity perhaps, and yet when I hear you and vishvahetu making your assertions, your beliefs don't strike me as anything but as ...[text shortened]... tortions or cultural contexts or Nazi Cards or "things you have read and come to accept".

the application of Biblical principles has helped literally millions of persons overcome all manner of ills from prostitution to alcohol and drug abuse, indeed Mr. Booth, it is a simple and incontrovertible fact. I shall not be drawn into a my God is better than your God debate, for what is there to argue against, the darkness, an unknowing, a hunch, a feeling, a room full of mirrors, an unsubstantiated belief masquerading as spirituality, an impotent power unable and unwilling to express itself in the real world?

Ever gone fishing Mr . Booth, looked for little worms to catch fish? what happens when the little worms are exposed to the light when we turn over rocks? they don't like it and head back to the safety of darkness.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And how is your theism not a "product of speculation and imagination."? What sets you apart?

My theism is not wrapped up in "stuff". I afford it no intellectualization or verbalization. I do not act upon any speculation, I do not act in any affected ways with regard to things I do not know and cannot know. Perhaps there is no God. If there is not, I am still unaffected. I spend no time "imagining" God. And I do not claim to be in communication with Him nor have I been handed any code of conduct. There is no afterlife speculation or any creed or religiosity attached to my theism. So, I reckon these things set me apart from 99% of the theists on this board, e.g. jaywill, josephw, vishvahetu and robbie, who all have much more in common than any of them would perhaps want to admit. Indeed, I believe that vishvahetu has done this board a service. I think his contributions shine a light on the contributions of many theists here. And it is under this light that I think the degree to which I am "set apart" is clear.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what is there to argue against, the darkness, an unknowing, a hunch, a feeling, a room full of mirrors, an unsubstantiated belief masquerading as spirituality, an impotent power unable and unwilling to express itself in the real world?

Oh the irony.

Originally posted by John W Booth
Oh the irony.

people being helped in their lives Mr. Booth is not irony, its a fact.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the application of Biblical principles has helped literally millions of persons overcome all manner of ills from prostitution to alcohol and drug abuse

Good to hear. It's strange that you'd think I didn't know this. The fact that Biblical principles have helped people is to be welcomed. But of course it doesn't indicate anything inherent in those Biblical principles, in and of themselves, except that they have helped people - as do, on occasion, alcohol and drugs.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
people being helped in their lives Mr. Booth is not irony, its a fact.

robbie: what is there to argue against, the darkness, an unknowing, a hunch, a feeling, a room full of mirrors, an unsubstantiated belief masquerading as spirituality, an impotent power unable and unwilling to express itself in the real world?

Oh the irony.

Originally posted by John W Booth
Good to hear. It's strange that you'd think I didn't know this. The fact that Biblical principles have helped people is to be welcomed. But of course it doesn't indicate anything inherent in those Biblical principles, in and of themselves, except that they have helped people - as do, on occasion, alcohol and drugs.

Mr Booth you called the tune,

it indicates to me that a theology should have some kind of tangible expression, a purpose if you like, otherwise, what's its use?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
play the Nazi card????

Hey your trying to play it twice, now.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Mr Booth you called the tune,

it indicates to me that a theology should have some kind of tangible expression, a purpose if you like, otherwise, what's its use?

There you are, again, trying to cram theism into the confines of religion. Why?

Originally posted by John W Booth
Hey your trying to play it twice, now.

i resent the term, 'playing the Nazi card', indeed, it denigrates the events and was not intended for political capital or leverage in any way, merely to illustrate a point that you were unable to refute except with, 'your playing the Nazi card'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
play the Nazi card????, you tosser, we are talking of real people, with real lives, in real situations, with real loved ones, with real mothers and fathers and children. Whats that Mr. Booth, was Robbie able to substantiate his point with a real life episode, an actual even, a happening, well documented and recorded in the annals of history - smell that Mr. Booth, smells like toast.

Smells like toast? How does the Nazi Holocaust prove that your speculation about life after death is not mere speculation?