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Originally posted by John W Boothactually it has a Biblical reference, which i did not author and which i have reasoned upon and come to accept. I did not make it up, if you like you may find the principle in the book of Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 5, written by the ancient king Solomon. Now you will state why i have made it up, if you please. that the hope of resurrection is able to transcend death is also verifiable as persons of my own religious denomination demonstrated during their incarceration in the Nazi death camps, you see Mr. Booth, the hope of the resurrection enabled them to face death with dignity and a hope that they would see the resurrection, thus it was able to transcend death itself. That is a reality that you cannot nor will not deny Mr.Booth.
This:
"At death we are unconscious as if sleeping, awaiting the resurrection, we are conscious of no pain and no suffering. This hope of the resurrection is so powerful its transcends death itself. "
Or someone else made it up and you liked the sound of it. It's no different from the stuff vishvahetu peddles here. Truly.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut I have already told you I am a theist. It's even the thread title.
you cannot possibly state that there is not intelligence and design in the natural world...
Your Bible is of no relevance to me.
If it helps you live a good life, good luck to you.
You know nothing more than I do about what happens after death.
You've simply bought into a whole load of uniform speculation about it. It's what you call religion.
I am not religious. But I am a theist.
Different strokes, I suppose.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLike I said, it's made up stuff about stuff we simply don't know. And you clearly have bought into it. Personally, I myself do not need this vishvahetu-like stuff to make my theism work or to have a spiritual dimension.
actually it has a Biblical reference, which i did not author and which i have reasoned upon and come to accept. I did not make it up, if you like you may find the principle in the book of Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 5, written by the ancient king Solomon. Now you will state why i have made it up, if you please.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"Ecclesiastes" is a book that some people wrote.
actually it has a Biblical reference, which i did not author and which i have reasoned upon and come to accept. I did not make it up, if you like you may find the principle in the book of Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 5, written by the ancient king Solomon. Now you will state why i have made it up, if you please. that the hope of resurrection is ab ...[text shortened]... s able to transcend death itself. That is a reality that you cannot nor will not deny Mr.Booth.
You have mentioned the Nazis? Why?
Originally posted by John W Boothok, but what of it? If i see design in and intelligence in living things and it fills me with wonder and awe, and i ascribe such wonder to my God, what of it? As for death, it simply is a matter of logic and reason, the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen? I have brought no speculation, its your own position that appears to me to be so vague that it revels in a kind of darkness, the safety of unknowing and thus we have come no further forward that the churches of medieval Europe, with their insistence on the power of a finger of St Peter, or a piece of the cross of the Christ.
But I have already told you I am a theist. It's even the thread title.
Your Bible is of no relevance to me.
If it helps you live a good life, good luck to you.
You know nothing more than I do about what happens after death.
You've simply bought into a whole load of uniform speculation about it. It's what you call religion.
I am not religious. But I am a theist.
Different strokes, I suppose.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIndeed.
yes but not entirely for we are also products of environment, culture, the things we have read and come to accept, the things we have experienced. The statement was of course made with regard to the ideas that I set out.
But it's interesting that you've stated your opinion earlier with a degree of certainty that I don't think is compatible with that statement. How absolute can your certainty in your beliefs be if you are also a product of all those worldly things?
And why is it bad to doubt? Isn't doubt what motivates learning?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieok, but what of it? If i see design in and intelligence in living things and it fills me with wonder and awe, and i ascribe such wonder to my God, what of it?
ok, but what of it? If i see design in and intelligence in living things and it fills me with wonder and awe, and i ascribe such wonder to my God, what of it? As for death, it simply is a matter of logic and reason, the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen? I have brought no speculat ...[text shortened]... th their insistence on the power of a finger of St Peter, or a piece of the cross of the Christ.
Like I said, I believe there is a God.
As for death, it simply is a matter of logic and reason, the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen?
No. I am not. I said I have no idea what happens after death.
I have brought no speculation
"At death we are unconscious as if sleeping, awaiting the resurrection, we are conscious of no pain and no suffering. This hope of the resurrection is so powerful its transcends death itself." This is speculation by any common definition of the word.
the churches of medieval Europe ... the cross of the Christ
Like I said, I have no interest in religion.
I am just a theist.
Originally posted by John W Boothbecause our experience within the death camps illustrates the point that the hope of resurrection is able to transcend death. You see Mr.Booth, we had the privilege afforded to us, unlike the Jews, that if we renounced our faith we could have been freed. Who was willing to give up the love of their God for some temporary freedom? Indeed, it was the hope of a resurrection which sustained those facing death, a confidence that God fulfils his promises. It was not a matter of mere death for a principle, but that conscientiously to renounce ones faith was to betray oneself and what one had become. The hope of the resurrection was instrumental in helping some to face death with confidence in a marked difference to those without it. This is not some lofty ideal Mr. Booth, it happened.
"Ecclesiastes" is a book that some people wrote.
You have mentioned the Nazis? Why?
Originally posted by Palynkammm, its very interesting indeed,
Indeed.
But it's interesting that you've stated your opinion earlier with a degree of certainty that I don't think is compatible with that statement. How absolute can your certainty in your beliefs be if you are also a product of all those worldly things?
And why is it bad to doubt? Isn't doubt what motivates learning?
I think because our experience reinforces our belief, you see if my ancient text (i apologise for harping on about it, but what can i do, it forms the basis of my belief), states that if I apply certain principles in practice and i do and they work, it reinforces the belief. I think. . . .
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHow is this relevant at all? You, Nazi victims and me. Does somebody in this little tangent you have started support the Nazis or loathe them less or more than each other?
because our experience within the death camps illustrates the point that the hope of resurrection is able to transcend death. You see Mr.Booth, we had the privilege afforded to us, unlike the Jews, that if we renounced our faith we could have been freed. Who was willing to give up the love of their God for some temporary freedom? Indeed, it was th ...[text shortened]... n a marked difference to those without it. This is not some lofty ideal Mr. Booth, it happened.
What do the Nazis have to do with "I am a theist"?
Originally posted by John W BoothI truly believe that you are a theist Mr. Booth, i am just amazed that your theism is so kind of, not vague, but not yet formed, perhaps you like it that way 🙂 can i ask you, have you always been a theist?
[b]ok, but what of it? If i see design in and intelligence in living things and it fills me with wonder and awe, and i ascribe such wonder to my God, what of it?
Like I said, I believe there is a God.
As for death, it simply is a matter of logic and reason, the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you sayi ...[text shortened]... cross of the Christ
Like I said, I have no interest in religion.
I am just a theist.[/b]
Originally posted by John W Boothit simply illustrated a principle that i had made and that you had queried, you stated that it was based on speculation, i merely provided a point of reference stating that it was founded, not upon speculation, but upon experience, that is what it has to do with, I am a theist.
How is this relevant at all? You, Nazi victims and me. Does somebody in this little tangent you have started support the Nazis or loathe them less or more than each other?
What do the Nazis have to do with "I am a theist"?
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethe body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen?
ok, but what of it? If i see design in and intelligence in living things and it fills me with wonder and awe, and i ascribe such wonder to my God, what of it? As for death, it simply is a matter of logic and reason, the body degenerates, the mind stops functioning, we are unconscious, are you saying that does not happen? I have brought no speculat ...[text shortened]... th their insistence on the power of a finger of St Peter, or a piece of the cross of the Christ.
You're wrong here Rob. How can you be unconcious with no brain activity? At death the brain ceases to work, being in an unconcious state still requires brain activity.