I just can't get over it...

Originally posted by whodey
God told Adam and Eve that if they partook of the fruit they will surely die. So what do you think? They partook of the fruit and they died. There is no way around it. So what specifically involves this "death" God was warning them about? Was it merely a spiritual death he was talking about and not a physical death? Where Adam and Eve going to die physi ...[text shortened]... id not die spiritually so did God change his mind and spare him? Does God make false threats?

He died spiritually when he ate the apple? Would not forgiveness for your sins through repentance be considered spiritual rebirth?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
When I say cowardice, it is not intended as an insult: it merely states the obvious condition of those who get to the edge but refuse to peer into the enormity... and yet walk away bragging to their friends that it was no big thing.

You and a few others here claim that meaninglessness drives you, that there is some comfort to be had in forging your own ...[text shortened]... s therefore based on fantasy. Such a position is absurd and completely at odds with reality.

How can meaninglessness drive you? You clearly fail to grasp the point and are still mistaking universal meaning/purpose for individual meaning/purpose. I do not need some universal purpose to find personal drive, likewise the search for answers does not rely on there being an answer to anything, merely that there are questions.

Until you realise that the nature of existence does not necessitate meaning thereof, you'll continue to talk in silly metaphors about people staring into the abyss.

Originally posted by knightmeister
However, I simply cannot believe that an all powerful being capable of creating the Universe would wish to be worshipped. It makes no sense, what possible purpose does this serve? God has an ego? MARINKA

It's not an ego thing , God knows that it is right and fitting for us to be worshipping him because that shows we are appreciating our postion in r ...[text shortened]... something to be worshipped in awe and wonder? Think about it , a being with no beginning. Wow!

To it I would add one more thing -- "worshipping" God helps us achieve our full potential as human beings simply because it brings us closer to the source and end of our being.

Originally posted by nige22
He died spiritually when he ate the apple? Would not forgiveness for your sins through repentance be considered spiritual rebirth?

Now I see their reasoning. Then again, why would a God of life create us to physically die? Speculations?

Originally posted by whodey
Now I see their reasoning. Then again, why would a God of life create us to physically die? Speculations?

Ezekiel 33:14-16 (King James Version)

14Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

-------------------------------------------------------

Physical death is the transformation between the earth life and after life. In the after life there is no death.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Those who claim there needn't be a reason for our existence are simply expressing their cowardice toward the issue you are courageously facing. Those thoughts we have when we are alone with ourselves and without anything left to distract our honesty conflict with the stance that it (life) is all meaningless.

Solomon went through a needless moral quagmi ...[text shortened]... wild laciviousness.

God (ever the gentleman) allows you to make that decision for yourself.

No. Religion is there for people to hide behind. That's why it is so popular. I'm sick of religious people literally knocking on my door and telling me i have taken the easy way out. It is hard being an agnostic, with all the moral dilemas it brings. But my journey through life is (hopefully) making me a strong and fulfilled individual.

It is the hard way to live, but no pain no gain. Besides, I couldn't believe in any God I have been told about so far because it's not really a choice. You either believe or you don't. You can't decide what to believe in, you just do or you don't believe it. You think "ah that must be true" or you think "that sounds ridiculous". You can't chose how you react, you just react. Cowardice doesn't come into it.

Originally posted by twiceaknight
No. Religion is there for people to hide behind. That's why it is so popular. I'm sick of religious people literally knocking on my door and telling me i have taken the easy way out. It is hard being an agnostic, with all the moral dilemas it brings. But my journey through life is (hopefully) making me a strong and fulfilled individual.

It is the ha us". You can't chose how you react, you just react. Cowardice doesn't come into it.

I'll cut up your post and reply to it bit by bit.

"Religion is there for people to hide behind. That's why it is so popular."

No. According to the Thorndike-Barnhart Intermediate Dictionary, Religion means:"1. belief in and worship of God or gods; 2. a particular system of faith or worship." That's why it's so popular. Many people believe in definition 1. Many people, like you, believe in definition 2.

"I'm sick of religious people literally knocking on my door and telling me i have taken the easy way out."

Can you blame them? They're trying to get other people to believe in what they believe in. Don't you want to get other people to be agnostic?

"It's hard being an agnostic, with all the moral dilemas it brings"

It's harder being a Christian. We are the ones who are called names like crazy, stupid, insane, retarded, idiotic, etc. We are the ones who people spit at. We are the ones who are criticized childishly for our beliefs. Do you realize that you are religious? You said it right here that you are agnostic. What is a moral dilema, exactly?

"I couldn't believe in any God I've been told about because it's not really a choice. You either believe or you don't. You can't decide what to believe in, you just do or don't believe in it. You think "ah that must be true" or you think "that sounds ridiculous". You can't chose how you react, you just react."

Yeah, it's a choice. I'm not forced to believe in Christianity, I believe in it because I want to. I believe in it because it is what I believe to be true. I believe in it because I believe it's where the true God can be found. If you want to create your own religion so you can believe exactly like you want to, go right ahead.

Originally posted by Acemaster
I'll cut up your post and reply to it bit by bit.

"Religion is there for people to hide behind. That's why it is so popular."

No. According to the Thorndike-Barnhart Intermediate Dictionary, Religion means:"1. belief in and worship of God or gods; 2. a particular system of faith or worship." That's why it's so popular. Many people believe in definiti ...[text shortened]... on so you can believe exactly like you want to, go right ahead.

No, agnosticism is not a religion. Agnosticism is not a system of beliefs.

And why the pissing contest about whether the christian or agnostic has the harder time of it? All of us struggle with metaphysical questions in our own way; there is no easy answer.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
I agree with you here but i'm not sure you've thought about this deeply enough.

If you consider the philosophical problem of the ship that is maintained over many years. Each year a part of the ship is removed and replaced with a new part. Enough years pass until all of the parts have been replaced anew. The old parts that are no longer part of the s ...[text shortened]... fact there was somewhere for it to start at all is too much for my tiny brain to get around.

That is a truly bizaare thought experiment. I first came across it via the concept of teleportation. Teleportation should be possible if you disassemble a person in one place, transfer over that person's "blueprint" (not just DNA, but including all information about the person) then you should be able to reassemble the person from local atoms, right? But then you run into the odd ideas you're talking about. What if you reassembled the original atoms? Which is the real person?

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
I exist. The more i think about it, the more ridiculous it is. What is my purpose other than procreation and what is the point in that anyway?

Recently i have been finding this terrifying. As i think about my existence and how improbable it is, i imagine what it is not to exist also. I find this is having the effect that my consciousness splutters an ...[text shortened]... thing! Do other people feel the same way? Is this normal? It's driving me to distraction.

If it helps, think of the universe as a big experiment conducted by superior alien intellects.

Originally posted by KnightWulfe
If it helps, think of the universe as a big experiment conducted by superior alien intellects.

How is that any different to god?

Originally posted by Starrman
How is that any different to god?

Aliens are not metaphysically simple (Lat. simplex) or necessary.

Originally posted by Acemaster
I believe in it because it is what I believe to be true.

Exactly the point he made. You cannot choose. You either believe, or
you don't. Can you choose to believe that this world has been created
through an unconscious selection process, even if you find the idea
ridiculous? Of course not. Like he said, you either believe in it or you don't. You can't choose it.

I think you might be confusing belief with faith. I may not necessarily
know what to believe as for the existence of a God, but I can choose to
have faith in the bible (or whatever religious scripture applies to me).

Addition: Of course, having faith in something I can't test myself,
to me, is dumb. But I wouldn't say that to anyone else. It would rude.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Aliens are not metaphysically simple (Lat. simplex) or necessary.

What on earth (or extra-terrestrial?) does metaphysically simple mean? Also, what has necessity to do with it?

Originally posted by Starrman
What on earth (or extra-terrestrial?) does metaphysically simple mean? Also, what has necessity to do with it?

Brace yourself for a dose of Aquinas filtered through a gibbericordium.