Originally posted by Agerg
How many times have we heard (paraphrased)

"any person who subscribes to the teachings of [the Bible] shall receive perfect knowledge without error."?

Any difference between his claims and fundamentalist Christians' claims are trivial.

Thats right. With just books we are but using one paddle to row in circles.

There is no substitue for experience

Originally posted by Agerg
How many times have we heard (paraphrased)

"any person who subscribes to the teachings of [the Bible] shall receive perfect knowledge without error."?

Any difference between his claims and fundamentalist Christians' claims are trivial.

I guess that's ok then.

Originally posted by divegeester
I guess that's ok then.

As far as what does counts for 'ok' in this forum I see no reason why his beliefs shouldn't be 'ok'.Reveal Hidden ContentIf memory serves me correctly, in a conversation with rwingett recently you mentioned that you take certain parts of the Bible literally. (Garden of Eden?..Noah's Ark???) Am I wrong here? If yes, my apologies; and if not, how are his beliefs any less tenable than your own? 😕

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
if this is the best we can come up with in terms of diversity, we are better off just telling the robbie or the josephw they are wrong.


and please don't mention scientologists, you make me have a frowny face.

Sorry Zahlanzi but I hold Scientologists, fundamentalist muslims, fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist vishvahetu religion followers, tea leaf readers, 'psychics', mediums, etc...Reveal Hidden Contentto be equally crazy.

Originally posted by Agerg
As far as what does counts for 'ok' in this forum I see no reason why his beliefs shouldn't be 'ok'.[hidden](acknowledging that he needs to improve on the method via which he delivers his message)[/hidden]If memory serves me correctly, in a conversation with rwingett recently you mentioned that you take certain parts of the Bible literally. (Garden of Eden?..N ...[text shortened]... ? If yes, my apologies; and if not, how are his beliefs any less tenable than your own? 😕

I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs - or their unbeliefs.

Actually you are right in this instance; I guess I'm just sick of vishva's attitude, not his beliefs.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Not true.....any person who subscribes to the teachings of Vedanta Sutra shall receive perfect knowledge without error.

But to assimilate this higher knowledge, one must live the spiritual life described by Vedanta and purify their intelligence, mind, senses and body to be able to understand the finer points of the spiritual.

Just reading the Vedant ...[text shortened]... tual life to get the clear understanding.......there are no short/cuts to understanding Godhead.

Vishy, I still am wondering about your concept of reincarnation.
You said all living life forms have a soul. Like bacteria, like viruses, right? Doesn't that mean that all living beings have trillions of souls inside them since we have literally trillions of individual bacteria inside us, good and bad. So we live in a sea of souls?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Vishy, I still am wondering about your concept of reincarnation.
You said all living life forms have a soul. Like bacteria, like viruses, right? Doesn't that mean that all living beings have trillions of souls inside them since we have literally trillions of individual bacteria inside us, good and bad. So we live in a sea of souls?

Exactly right....

There is life everywhere even on the sun, in the ice poles and on the bottom of the ocean where submarines can be crushed easily like a sardine can.

Inside of your very own body are millions of forms of microscopic life, living for maybe a few hours or a few days or longer.

But dont be thinking how is this possible, because whether the soul is animating to life the body of a microbe or an elephant or even you.....the tiny body or the big body is only an illusion and is ultimately energy.

It is a big bundle of energy or a tiny bundle of energy, and this energy is malleable and transformable into any shape of body........but soul, the living force is immutable and indestructible, and being the actual living component within the body, it is the source of all living properties observed in the body.

The different bundles of material energy only give symptoms of life, and therefore the body can be easily mistaken for the living force....but this is an illusion.

Dont be thinking that enjoyment can only be experienced in the human form, but even a microbe experiences microbe enjoyment, and on that level the microbe thinks that microbe life is the all in all.

This is true because all of life's experiences are experienced on the relative platform, so the microbe,s short life is completely acceptable from the perspective of the microbe.

For a materialist who rejects God and spiritual knowledge, and lives to satisfy the bodily senses believing that sense enjoyment to be the goal of life.....there is no difference between that person and the life of a microbe.

'Why?

Because they both seek the same thing........sex, food, shelter, defence and they both die in ignorance of the real purpose of existence, and they both do not seek higher knowledge of God, Life, Existential purpose and True ultimate meaning.

Ask yourself now..... what is the difference between an animal and a person, if the person does not live for the ultimate purpose for which human life is afforded?

Really..... the only difference would be that the sense enjoyment for the person, would be on a higher more sophisticated level than the animal.

The person would have sex with all manner of fancy arrangements, and the animal will have sex in the street......the person will defend with automatic fire power, and the animal will defend with teeth and claws.....the person will eat in a fancy restaurant with knife and fork.... and the animal will eat out of a plastic bowl......the person will sleep in a big fancy bed with silk sheets and so on.....and the animal will sleep on the ground.......the person shall produce all manner of modes of transport and pollute the air, and animals will walk.,

So materialistic persons who reject God and worship sense enjoyment as the goal of life, think that they are so advanced and superior, because they can experience their particular sense enjoyment in a more elaborate and fancy way that the animals, but they are truly on the same platform as the animals and will still meet the exact same fate as those animals, and that fate is (die in ignorance without ever realizing the true purpose of existence)

And then we see that the cheating scientists, are always trying to give all theses materialists, more and more elaborate and fancy ways to increase the worship of sense pleasure, by creating bigger and better more fancy material stuff.

This is why we keep these scientists on a high platform, because they are always supplying us with stuff that gives pleasure to the senses, but they give us absolutely nothing that would assist us in understanding the real purpose of this very important human form, which is realizing God and returning back home to Godhead.

Most scientists are atheistic and believe that they are keepers of the truth, and the truth they tell us is that there is no God, and that the purpose of life is to obtain as much material enjoyment as possible....and that they shall give you all the necessary toys you need to fore-fill this goal of life, and by giving us constantly all this material stuff to help us fore-fill this false goal of life for sense enjoyment, they will remain everyone's greatest loyal friend.

Actually they are everyone's greatest enemy, because they are leading everyone away from the true purpose of life, by never informing them that life could never exist the way it does, without a Supreme Creative Potency at its foundation......which they are actually aware of.

They are aware that there is an non material unseen cause behind all that exists, but they dare not reveal this for they are approaching the God factor.

If they actually inform the people of the true situation, then their crown of being all knowing keepers of the truth shall be taken from them, and they will be exposed as cheaters and fools.

These scientists, actually are aware of the Unseen Superior Supreme Spiritual Creative Potency at the foundation of all that exists, because they have at their disposal all the sophisticated equipment to see the mind boggling complexity of the life all around us and beyond.....but they do not acknowledge that potency as anything spiritual, but instead they are left with, the great unseen mystery of science.

But because of their dishonesty and foolishness, to solve this mystery, they extract obscene amounts of money from the tax payer in their false search for the one property that would explain the existence of all things. ( so far they have arrived at string theory)

String theory has now replaced the Spiritual Creative Potency of God.

That fundamental single property, is already explained fully in Vedanta Sutra, and because they do not want to loose there false standing as keepers of the truth, they reject the authorized teachings of the Vedas.

Originally posted by mikelom
As usual you go one step too far!

Please tell me how there is 'life' on the Sun?

There is nothing to be on, for a start. It's a ball of exploding gases.

The temperature could not permit any life-form whatsoever.

Please tell me about this 'life that exists on the Sun'.

Edit: Oh! Go on. You are going to tell me that gases have a soul?

-m.

There is no place where life does not exist.

Life exists everywhere.

If you cannot understand simple things and argue about animal cruelty, what hope do I have in explaining how life exists in the Sun.....

Lets put first things first, when you have shown that you can understand the basics, then we can discuss how life can exist on the sun.

I am not singling you out.....but many in this forum, are not yet ready for me to discuss such things in detail.

Most in this forum are still struggling to come to terms with..... animal cruelty is wrong.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
If you cannot understand simple things and argue about animal cruelty, what hope do I have in explaining how life exists in the Sun...

I eat meat and, while I'm happy to support you in your own lifestyle choice to avoid doing so, I personally have absolutely no spiritual problem with it at all. I have received no credible 'instructions' from anyone or anything to live my life differently in this respect, and my periods of vegetarianism at various points in my life were not motivated by my spirituality at all. Now, having settled that, go on - have a go at explaining to me how life exists in or on the Sun.

Originally posted by FMF
I eat meat and, while I'm happy to support you in your own lifestyle choice to avoid doing so, I personally have absolutely no spiritual problem with it at all. I have received no credible 'instructions' from anyone or anything to live my life differently in this respect, and my periods of vegetarianism at various points in my life were not motivated by my spiri ...[text shortened]... having settled that, go on - have a go at explaining to me how life exists in or on the Sun.

When I mentioned how life exists everywhere, and included the sun, I was not opening up a discussion about the sun.

As you are aware there are many in this forum who cannot come to terms with....that animal cruelty is wrong, so discussing the sun and life therefore upon it, is a conversation I am not going to have.

It would be doomed to becoming a battleground of words, and not because of anything I present, but because to understand anything outside of the perception of the mundane senses, is quiet impossible without spiritual insight.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
When I mentioned how life exists everywhere, and included the sun, I was not opening up a discussion about the sun.

Well the discussion has been opened, it would seem. So, go ahead, how does life exist on/in the Sun, as you claim?

Originally posted by vishvahetu
It would be doomed to becoming a battleground of words, and not because of anything I present, but because to understand anything outside of the perception of the mundane senses, is quiet impossible without spiritual insight.

Well there are plenty of people here with plenty of spiritual insight - I count myself among them - and quite clearly a large number of people who are manifestly able to understand things "outside of the perception of the mundane senses". You and I differ in our opinions about eating meat and spiritual matters attendant thereto. We have established that and there need not be a "battleground of words" over the issue. So, this is a kind of open-topic kind of thread, so there's no reason for you to demure in this matter of 'life on/in the Sun', unless it was a bit of hyperbole that you cannot now substantiate? Just give it a go. How is there life on the Sun?

Originally posted by FMF
Well there are plenty of people here with plenty of spiritual insight - I count myself among them - and quite clearly a large number of people who are manifestly able to understand things "outside of the perception of the mundane senses". You and I differ in our opinions about eating meat and spiritual matters attendant thereto. We have established that and ther ...[text shortened]... erbole that you cannot now substantiate? Just give it a go. How is there life on the Sun?

You have already admitted to eating meat, and commented that you would continue because it has no affect on your spiritual grounding.

This comment has revealed that you have no spiritual insight, because animal killing and cruelty is something persons on the spiritual path do not partake of.

When persons begin their spiritual journey they understand as a basic requirement to refrain from meat eating.

Refraining from eating meat is the absolute first basic requirement for the person claiming to be living a religious and spiritual life.

Someone not understanding this is ignorant of what is true religious life, and is actually living a sinful life by doing so.

'A religious person eating meat, is just like a Jewish Rabbi joining the Nazi party.

So therefore you have no insight, and I cannot explain spiritual matters that are beyond your scope to understand.....I would just be inviting conflict.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
You have already admitted to eating meat, and commented that you would continue because it has no affect on your spiritual grounding.

This comment has revealed that you have no spiritual insight, because animal killing and cruelty is something persons on the spiritual path do not partake of.

When persons begin their spiritual journey they understand ...[text shortened]... ritual matters that are beyond your scope to understand.....I would just be inviting conflict.

OK, well, now that we have established that we simply agree to disagree on the issue of eating meat, can you explain how or what life exists on the Sun?