Originally posted by HalitoseWhy can't you be an instrument in revealing your MOTHERS love?
I disagree with you about hell being the motivation for a Christian to do good. I believe the chief motivation to be, to show your fellowman the love of Christ. If you have personally experieced Christ, you can't help but want to be an instrument in revealing Christ's love.
maybe do some good for people, say feed soup to the poor in
the bario or bronx because your MOTHER loves you or your father
or big brother or something? Or even because YOU think its a good
idea. Why not do good because it comes from your OWN heart not
because you THINK you are on the heaven list or will avoid the hell
list.
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Originally posted by sonhouseWhy can't you be an instrument in revealing your MOTHERS love?
Why can't you be an instrument in revealing your MOTHERS love?
maybe do some good for people, say feed soup to the poor in
the bario or bronx because your MOTHER loves you or your father
or big brother or something? Or even because YOU think its a good
idea. Why not do good because it comes from your OWN heart not
because you THINK you are on the heaven list or will avoid the hell
list.
maybe do some good for people, say feed soup to the poor in
the bario or bronx because your MOTHER loves you or your father
or big brother or something?
Because thats not reason enough.
Why not do good because it comes from your OWN heart
Because from my OWN heart, I would really be a selfish person.
you THINK you are on the heaven list or will avoid the hell
list
I can do as much good as I like, it won't get me on the heaven list.
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Originally posted by AynatI disagree, Aynat. Your church is unusual. The vast majority
These are just a few of the things that people of faith are doing from my church....My church is not special or different from anyother church, synagogue or mosque in my community or most communities in the first world...
of churches which I know are simply places that regurgitate the same
'Just love Jesus and you will go to heaven' nonsense and never
contribute in any meaningful way to the community.
Consider your church. You mention about 40 members (assuming
no overlap amongst the groups). How big is your church? I'll bet it
is substantially larger than 40 people. I'll bet there are at least 250
on the church ledger.
In fact, most churches say that 80% of their work is done by less than
20% of their congregation.
But 100% will label themselves as people of faith. This is my
objection. No, Howard's story was despicable, to be sure. And Shav's
was just meant to irritate people, to be sure.
However, there is a degree to which people are disingenuous about
their churches. They paint them out to be places of living prayer, but
they are mostly just places for people to feel good about themselves
and I can understand a great deal of the objections that Howard and
Shavixmir raises (although I categorically reject the disdainful manner
in which they often do it).
If people who called themselves Christian did what they were called
(i.e. vocation!) to do, then there would be no hunger, no poverty, no
violence, no nothing. It is the fact that Christianity purports to be this
great good, but often is this pocket of apathy and indifference.
Your church is unusual, I assure you. On an annual basis, I have
contact with 100s of churches. Only a handful have a reputation which
compares with yours. And some have 1000s of members.
Nemesio
Originally posted by howardgeehey, at least this made me laugh which is more than i can say about the dog pissing on the church door.
This reminds me of a few years back in London after an all night party.
I was wandering the streets after being awake all night feeling quite strange. It was about 6:30 am, so I bought a newspaper and a can of drink and some chocolate and wandered off to the park.
After reading for a bit, I began to get cold, so started walking back to the house. O ...[text shortened]... ent of my life and made me realise how completely irreverant I was to religion and its untruths.
Originally posted by NemesioI disagree, Aynat. Your church is unusual. The vast majority
I disagree, Aynat. Your church [b]is unusual. The vast majority
of churches which I know are simply places that regurgitate the same
'Just love Jesus and you will go to heaven' nonsense and never
contribute in any meaningful way to the community.
Consider your church. You mention about 40 members (assuming
no overlap amongst the groups). Ho ...[text shortened]... andful have a reputation which
compares with yours. And some have 1000s of members.
Nemesio[/b]
of churches which I know are simply places that regurgitate the same
'Just love Jesus and you will go to heaven' nonsense and never
contribute in any meaningful way to the community.
You need to get out more, because I completely disagree with your
view of the vast majority of churches.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI can practically guarantee that I see more churches than you do in a given
You need to get out more, because I completely disagree with your
view of the vast majority of churches.
Kelly
year given my two professions. Literally hundreds every year of different
denominations.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioWhich makes me wonder what kind of churches you go to, to get
I can practically guarantee that I see more churches than you do in a given
year given my two professions. Literally hundreds every year of different
denominations.
Nemesio
that kind of view about them. I'd be willing to bet that unless you
are apart of the church for some time, you are not going to see all
that is going on within that body too. Popping in and out of a
church even sitting in on a service is not going to give you a clear
understanding of what that church is doing.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is not a 'view,' KellyJay. It is not an 'opinion,' that I 'think' that
Which makes me wonder what kind of churches you go to, to get
that kind of view about them. I'd be willing to bet that unless you
are apart of the church for some time, you are not going to see all
that is going on within that body too. Popping in and out of a
church even sitting in on a service is not going to give you a clear
understanding of what that church is doing.
Kelly
there are many churches I see (not popping in and out, either) don't
have community members who are active. The figure '80% of the
work done by 20% of the community' is not something I made up; it
is common vernacular.
How many members are there in your congregation? How many have
volunteered their time in the community service that Aynat's church have?
How many do it regularly?
If the % of people donating more than 2 hours of their time per week in
a soup kitchen, food bank, clothing acquisition, &c is higher than 20%, then
your church is unusual.
You tell me, KellyJay: how many people do these things in your church?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioI have been to many churches, from mormans, to cathalics, mennonite's to amish, My family in fact goes on tours around the north america, And from what I gather, (only going to a church once), there is allot of people in churches that go there for the social part of it, It seems like the "80% - 20%" figure is pretty close on the big churches, but I am amazed by allot of the smaller churches, once you really get to know them, I have been to several churches who truly practice what they believe in helping the community.
It is not a 'view,' KellyJay. It is not an 'opinion,' that I 'think' that
there are many churches I see (not popping in and out, either) don't
have community members who are active. The figure '80% of the
work done by 20% of the community' is not something I made up; it
is common vernacular.
How many members are there in your congregation? ...[text shortened]... is unusual.
You tell me, KellyJay: how many people do these things in your church?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioI'll just give you what I saw on those that help out with the children
It is not a 'view,' KellyJay. It is not an 'opinion,' that I 'think' that
there are many churches I see (not popping in and out, either) don't
have community members who are active. The figure '80% of the
work done by 20% of the community' is not something I made up; it
is common vernacular.
How many members are there in your congregation? ...[text shortened]... is unusual.
You tell me, KellyJay: how many people do these things in your church?
Nemesio
in the church I go to. They were passing out little gifts, bags with
kick kacks in them to those that help out. As people's names were
called they went up and stood until the others were also up front
getting their gifts. When they were done I'd say over 75% of the
people there were up front. I was not one of them, mainly because
I have for the past 5 years worked on Sundays. I just happened
to take a floating holiday that day to see this. There are more than
likely +/- 70 people that show up weekly. We have just got our
own building a couple of months ago, we were renting out a hall
to fellowship.
I do agree that there are more that just sit than those that are
active in the Chruch fellowship, but that does not mean those that
are not active in the church are not good Christians, nor does it
mean that those that are doing all the work in a Church setting are
Christians either let alone good Christians.
Kelly
Originally posted by flyUnityThat is why within the bigger churches they are starting what are
I have been to many churches, from mormans, to cathalics, mennonite's to amish, My family in fact goes on tours around the north america, And from what I gather, (only going to a church once), there is allot of people in churches that go there for the social part of it, It seems like the "80% - 20%" figure is pretty close on the big churches, but I am am ...[text shortened]... , I have been to several churches who truly practice what they believe in helping the community.
called small groups. Where those that have common interests
in subject matter or activities meet on off Church days and
fellowship. This practice is done in the small Churches too, as it is
something our fellowship practices.
Kelly