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17 Dec 13
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?" My opinion: the probing question doesn't pose any difficulty for a man or woman comfortable in his or her own skin and willing to live and let live; it does pose difficulties for those who wish to control conceptual frameworks they find threatening.
Question's simple: "If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?" My opinion: the probing question doesn't pose any difficulty for a man or woman comfortable in his or her own skin and willing to live and let live; it does pose difficulties for those who wish to control conceptual frameworks ...[text shortened]... .
Thanks for another enjoyable conversation. Indirectly or directly, I always learn from you.
the man and woman may well have a live and let live attitude.....but their is no guarantee their new religious neighbors will share that attitude. lets say the new neighbors are a new arm of the westboro baptist church and lets say the man and woman are actually a man and man or maybe they are in the army, or work in an abortion clinic. lets say the neighbors are screaming at the man and woman that they are going to burn in hell every time they see them.
equally the man and woman could be intolerant of the religious neighbors.
your 'question' and line of thinking seems to only apply in a magic world where everybody has a live and let live attitude........but in that world there would be no christianity, because christianity doesnt have a live and let live attitude.....it is a judgmental religion. can you imagine being an atheist and having rjhinds as neighbor!!!!
Originally posted by googlefudgeHebrews 9:27 (NASB) "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..."
You have not yet demonstrated either the existence of souls, or of eternal destinations for them.
Let alone what those hypothesised destinations might be like, or how one chooses between them.
Why should we consider the eternal destination of a 'soul' you have not yet proven, to exist?
You and I; our family members; close friends and acquaintances will all appear before God for Judgment after our physical death: either as Believers in Christ for evaluation and reward or as one who has rejected Him for eternal punishment.
Originally posted by stellspalfiestellspalfie, it's not about other people: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
[b]"If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?" My opinion: the probing question doesn't pose any difficulty for a man or woman comfortable in his or her own skin and willing to live and let live; it does pose difficulties for those who wish to control conceptual frameworks they find thre ...[text shortened]... it is a judgmental religion. can you imagine being an atheist and having rjhinds as neighbor!!!!
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18) "I am the way, and the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b)
"Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. " (Acts 16:31a) It is about accepting God's Grace Gift to you.
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17 Dec 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou still have provided no evidence that souls exist.
Hebrews 9:27 (NASB) "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..."
You and I; our family members; close friends and acquaintances will all appear before God for Judgment after our physical death: either as Believers in Christ for evaluation and reward or as one who has rejected Him for eternal punishment.
Try again.
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17 Dec 13
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby'its not about other people'
stellspalfie, it's not about other people: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world ...[text shortened]... ord Jesus and you shall be saved. " (Acts 16:31a) It is about accepting God's Grace Gift to you.
well maybe it should be. thats the sad truth behind christianity. its all about the individuals relationship with god, happy going to heaven regardless of friends and family going to hell.
maybe thats why i find christianity so bizarre. im all for us as a species, sticking together and progressing together. if my mates aint getting into the party then im not going either.
17 Dec 13
Originally posted by stellspalfie"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis
[b]'its not about other people'
well maybe it should be. thats the sad truth behind christianity. its all about the individuals relationship with god, happy going to heaven regardless of friends and family going to hell.
maybe thats why i find christianity so bizarre. im all for us as a species, sticking together and progressing together. if my mates aint getting into the party then im not going either.[/b]
"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." -C.S. Lewis
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'" -C.S. Lewis
"God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing." -C.S. Lewis
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17 Dec 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThat would be more impressive if C S Lewis' Apologetics were
"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis
"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." -C.S. Lewis
"There are two kinds o ...[text shortened]... ness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing." -C.S. Lewis
not so mind numbingly bad.
The fact that he can turn a phrase doesn't make him right.
And moreover... He isn't here to talk to or debate... you are.
Try responding in your own words for once.
17 Dec 13
GB, your original question was "If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?"
Note that the question starts IF GOD DIDN'T EXIST. So why do you keep quoting the Bible? If God did not exist, then the Bible would just be a collection of myths and stories. What relevance would it have?
--- Penguin
17 Dec 13
Originally posted by Penguin"GB, your original question was "If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?" --- Penguin.
GB, your original question was "If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?"
Note that the question starts [b]IF GOD DIDN'T EXIST. So why do you keep quoting the Bible? If God did not exist, then the Bible would just be a collection of myths and stories. What relevance would it have?
--- Penguin[/b]
If He doesn't exist in the minds of those who have rejected the possibility that He does, what possible difference would it make to them if other people accept the truth of God's Grace Gift of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to die a substitutionary spiritual death to atone for all human sin; and by doing so, eliminating the sin barrier between depraved mankind and God?
17 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeChrist took our place and accepted the punishment of separation from God the Father during those final three hours of the crucifixion. His finished work atoned for the sins of all mankind; and in doing so propitiated (satisfied) the Righteousness and Justice of God. All who reject God's Grace Gift are without hope and without eternal life. “God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died as a substitute for us.” (Revelation 20:10b)
That would be more impressive if C S Lewis' Apologetics were
not so mind numbingly bad.
The fact that he can turn a phrase doesn't make him right.
And moreover... He isn't here to talk to or debate... you are.
Try responding in your own words for once.
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17 Dec 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyhow does one person being killed on a cross equal all the bad things people have ever done??? can you please show me that equation in mathematical form please??????? if a billion people owe you one thousand pound each, would you be okay if one dude turned up and offered to pay you one million pound............especially if you had just employed that person to do that specific job, rather than them deciding to do it out of their own freewill.....................its fkng nuts...bat sht crazy.............................................here's a scenario for you, if jesus had freewill then their is a possibility that he decides not to play ball with god and goes about trying to have a normal life.............what then?????? what happens to humanity then matey boy???? does god punish us all, just because jesus doesnt want to die on the cross?????? does god really base all his decisions on if jesus dies or not?????? or does he have another plan, jesus jnr and jesus jnr jnr....until one of them finally bites the bullet???? why on earth would god be satisfied by a being he's sent on purpose to satisfy him???????????????? b a t - s h i t - c r a z y
Christ took our place and accepted the punishment of separation from God the Father during those final three hours of the crucifixion. His finished work atoned for the sins of all mankind; and in doing so propitiated (satisfied) the Righteousness and Justice of God. All who reject God's Grace Gift are without hope and without eternal life. “God d ...[text shortened]... d us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died as a substitute for us.” (Revelation 20:10b)
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeOriginally posted by googlefudge
That would be more impressive if C S Lewis' Apologetics were
not so mind numbingly bad.
The fact that he can turn a phrase doesn't make him right.
And moreover... He isn't here to talk to or debate... you are.
Try responding in your own words for once.
That would be more impressive if C S Lewis' Apologetics were
not so mind numbingly bad.
The fact that he can turn a phrase doesn't make him right.
And moreover... He isn't here to talk to or debate... you are.
Try responding in your own words for once.
googlefudge, were you aware that Clive Staples Lewis was an atheist at the age of 15?
"Conversion to Christianity: Lewis was raised in a church-going family in the Church of Ireland. He became an atheist at 15, though he later described his young self as being paradoxically "very angry with God for not existing. His early separation from Christianity began when he started to view his religion as a chore and as a duty; around this time, he also gained an interest in the occult, as his studies expanded to include such topics. Lewis quoted Lucretius (De rerum natura, 5.198–9) as having one of the strongest arguments for atheism:
Nequaquam nobis divinitus esse paratam
Naturam rerum; tanta stat praedita culpa
Had God designed the world, it would not be
A world so frail and faulty as we see.
Lewis's interest in the works of George MacDonald was part of what turned him from atheism. This can be seen particularly well through this passage in Lewis's The Great Divorce, chapter nine, when the semi-autobiographical main character meets MacDonald in Heaven:
... I tried, trembling, to tell this man all that his writings had done for me. I tried to tell how a certain frosty afternoon at Leatherhead Station when I had first bought a copy of Phantastes (being then about sixteen years old) had been to me what the first sight of Beatrice had been to Dante: Here begins the new life. I started to confess how long that Life had delayed in the region of imagination merely: how slowly and reluctantly I had come to admit that his Christendom had more than an accidental connexion with it, how hard I had tried not to see the true name of the quality which first met me in his books is Holiness.
He slowly re-embraced Christianity, influenced by arguments with his Oxford colleague and friend J. R. R. Tolkien, whom he seems to have met for the first time on 11 May 1926, and by the book The Everlasting Man by G. K. Chesterton. He fought greatly up to the moment of his conversion, noting that he was brought into Christianity like a prodigal, "kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance to escape." He described his last struggle in Surprised by Joy:
You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.
After his conversion to theism in 1929, Lewis converted to Christianity in 1931, following a long discussion and late-night walk with his close friends Tolkien and Hugo Dyson. He records making a specific commitment to Christian belief while on his way to the zoo with his brother. He became a member of the Church of England – somewhat to the disappointment of Tolkien, who had hoped that he would join the Catholic Church. Lewis was a committed Anglican who upheld a largely orthodox Anglican theology, though in his apologetic writings, he made an effort to avoid espousing any one denomination..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis
18 Dec 13
Originally posted by stellspalfiePerhaps when you calm down we can have a thoughtful conversation.
how does one person being killed on a cross equal all the bad things people have ever done??? can you please show me that equation in mathematical form please??????? if a billion people owe you one thousand pound each, would you be okay if one dude turned up and offered to pay you one million pound............especially if you had just employed that per ...[text shortened]... being he's sent on purpose to satisfy him???????????????? b a t - s h i t - c r a z y
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18 Dec 13
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyhow could you ascertain my emotional state from a forum post?????? im sure we all suspect things about you based on your posts, people try very hard to include you, rather than saying what they really think. if you want to know start a thread called 'what do you all really think about grampy bobby.........the answer aint gonna be pretty.........
Perhaps when you calm down we can have a thoughtful conversation.