Another Bible quote thread...
John 15:10
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's command and remain in his love.
Actually this idea runs throughout chapters 14 and 15. We must obey his commands. If you look at Judas' example wasn't he chosen by Jesus? Judas did not follow Jesus commands.
Kind of puts the "Just say Jesus is Lord and you are saved," thing on its head.
Here is another from 15:3-4
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
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Originally posted by EladarHow would you feel if someone said that you were just a voice for the Humanists by teaching these things ?
Another Bible quote thread...
John 15:10
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's command and remain in his love.
Actually this idea runs throughout chapters 14 and 15. We must obey his commands. If you look at Judas' example wasn't he chosen by Jesus? Judas did not follow Jesus commands.
Kind of puts ...[text shortened]... fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
On the thread about the Trinity Conquering racism you deemed that that was just the voice for Humanism.
Suppose someone said what you expounded here was just a voice of the Boy Scouts or the voice for the Red Cross or just voicing the concerns of Humanists who might teach that Jesus is a good example to follow.
Would such assumptions be justified ?
26 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipSo you don't like my responxse to you in a different thread.
How would you feel if someone said that you were just a voice for the Humanists by teaching these things ?
On the thread about the Trinity Conquering racism you deemed that that was just the voice for Humanism.
Suppose someone said what you expounded here was just a voice of the Boy Scouts or the voice for the Red Cross or just voicing the concerns o ...[text shortened]... who might teach that Jesus is a good example to follow.
Would such assumptions be justified ?
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Originally posted by Eladar
So you don't like my response to you in a different thread.
More importantly, I didn't like your obscuring of the real truth of the New Testament.
I may not have felt nice. And I may have asked you "How would you feel?"
But what is really important is to correct a mischaracterization of New Testament teachings.
And since you kind of do a "hit and run" post, I follow up over here to let you consider the kind of complaint you raised over on that thread.
26 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipIs it the messge of the new testament or the assumptions that you and many others read into it?So you don't like my response to you in a different thread.
More importantly, I didn't like your obscuring of the real truth of the New Testament.
I may not have felt nice. And I may have asked you "How would you feel?"
But what is really important is to correct a mischaracterization of New Testament teachings.
And since you ...[text shortened]... I follow up over here to let you consider the kind of complaint you raised over on that thread.
Jesus himself said we are to obey his commands as he obeyed God's commands. We must remain in him.
To be grafted into Christ we must be cut off from what we were and get our instruction from Christ.
You must be terribly blind if you do not know thst this message is repeated many times in the new testament.
To teach otherwise and to claim to know Christ is to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
-Removed-John's use of the expression to 'know God' can only be interpreted one way and that is the way John makes use of the expression in his other writings. Such as :
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (1 John 2:3-5 KJV)
That is clear. Those who keep Christ's commandments, these people know God. Those who claim to know God but do not keep his commandments are liars.
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Originally posted by Eladar
Is it the messge of the new testament or the assumptions that you and many others read into it?
I believe and teach the whole chapter of John 15.
Can you quote me that I discouraged anyone from obeying the commandments of Christ ?
Can you prove by quotation that taught it was not necessary to obey the commandments of Christ ?
Yes or No ?
The commandments of Christ are the commandments of a living Spirit who lives and moves within the believer. You really could not enumerate them specifically in an exhaustible way.
IE.
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)
1.) This is the teaching of the Apostle of Christ and certainly should be taken as a commandment of Christ.
2.) Who can possibly enumerate all the specifics which would constitute a believer disobeying so as to "grieve the Holy Spirit of God" .
It could be a tone of voice.
It could be an imagination to which God says "Don't think that way."
It could be the borrowing of an object one day longer than when your conscience said it should be returned.
You could grieve the Holy Spirit by joking.
You could grieve the Holy Spirit by raising your voice too loud.
You could grieve Him by not raising your voice loud enough.
It could be a nearly minute matter in your attitude or thought life.
It could be something in your heart on a minute level, on a "molecular" level so to speak.
In how MANY ways can a Christian go along with the Spirit of Christ in Whom she is abiding? It is impossible to enumerate in detail all the commandments of the living Christ.
The commandment of Christ may be to turn your eyes away.
If you do not, you may grieve the Holy Spirit of God.
You would then need to ask the Lord to cleanse you in His precious blood.
God is divine life.
It is hard to relegate any life to a specific number of commands.
So since Christ is a living Spirit the most important command of Christ is to abide in Him.
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"Abide in Me and I in you."
As Christians, to abide in Christ, we first have to get the revelation that He is the true vine and we the Christians are the branches. To learn to abide in Jesus Christ we first have to receive Him as Lord. Then we have to see there is no need to struggle to get into Him. We are in Him already.
He is the Vine and the saved believer in Christ is one of the branches in Him.
If a peach tree bears peaches it is normal, natural, spontaneous. It is hard to reduce the bearing of peaches from a peach tree into a collection of commandments. The branch of the tree will absorb the life of the tree. And the life of the tree will spontaneously bear the fruit that the tree's nature must bear.
Jesus himself said we are to obey his commands as he obeyed God's commands. We must remain in him.
That is right.
And Jesus is today the life giving Spirit.
He is on the throne of God in heaven (Romans 8:34).
And He is within the believers (Romans 8:9-11).
I have always taught here that we need to receive Christ in His available form as "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) and I have taught that we need to abide in Christ.
If we learn to abide in the resurrected Christ Who is the life giving divine Spirit of God, He will in turn abide in us.
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27 Nov 16
"Abide in Me and I in you." (John 15:4)
This is an unusual commandment. It actually is an exhortation to abide in Jesus Christ in order that Jesus Christ may abide in you. You live in Him and as a reciprocal result He will live in you.
Without abiding in Him the believer can do nothing. Or He can do a lot, but it will all amount to nothing in terms of God's purpose and God's will.
"Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me."
You must be terribly blind if you do not know thst this message is repeated many times in the new testament.
I think you may be a relative new comer here. Ask some of the posters how many times over the years they have seen me teach something about John 15.
Go ask those who have and still argue with me.
Ask Robbie Carobbie.
Ask sonhouse.
Ask wolfgang.
Ask ThinkOfOne.
Ask twhitehead or FMF or even Rajk999 , strong opponents to my gospel teaching.
Go ask them how many times I have written about abiding in the living and available Jesus Christ according to my faith.
None of those who I recommend you ask are particularly fond of my explanations.
To understate it a bit.
Ask them what kind of things am I likely to write about the 15th chapter of the Gospel of John.
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27 Nov 16
Originally posted by EladarWe are not communicating.
If you do not forgive you ate not following Christ's command. If the spirit within you is telling you something different than what we see on the Bible the spirit is not of God.
To listen to that spirit is to be deceived.
You apparently are not listening to me.
Or you are talking to me but debating someone in your mind's memory or imagination.
You're not getting what I am writing.