Originally posted by Eladar
As I said, as long as people follow the instructions about sin, I really don't have much against what you are saying.

The only ones that I'd still say have an issue are the ones who believe they can become a god if they live well enough.

Is there a non-Christian group that follows the same set of morals as Bible believing Christians?

I wont be discussing other groups and their moral values. I would leave that for Christ to do. I just discuss whats in the Bible.

Also I notice that you did not tell me how you came about this statement you made ": .. It is a common deception of the Devil to tell people they do not need to follow all of God's commands, just some and you are good to go .."

How did you arrive at that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I wont be discussing other groups and their moral values. I would leave that for Christ to do. I just discuss whats in the Bible.

Also I notice that you did not tell me how you came about this statement you made ": .. It is a common deception of the Devil to tell people they do not need to follow all of God's commands, just some and you are good to go .."

How did you arrive at that?

I was just trying to see exactly which groups of people you are talking about. If you are just talking about Christians who leave their church and won't join up with another due to abuse, then I think there might be other issues in the way. Part of those commands is to forgive. When you forgive others you have no need to be angry and pull away.

As for Christ to judge, sure but I just wondered which groups you considered non Christians going to heaven.

As for good works not going to heaven. Good works requires obedience to God, so if you are doing it out of conscience then OK, but if you are doing it to avoid hell it is not ok.

Originally posted by Eladar
I was just trying to see exactly which groups of people you are talking about. If you are just talking about Christians who leave their church and won't join up with another due to abuse, then I think there might be other issues in the way. Part of those commands is to forgive. When you forgive others you have no need to be angry and pull away.

As for C ...[text shortened]... you are doing it out of conscience then OK, but if you are doing it to avoid hell it is not ok.

I scarcely know a couple hundred people in all of my life so I cannot speak for the billions of people since the dawn of time and their groups and their morals.

I completely disagree with your view that some people should stay in their church if they rather pull away. Here is yet another of your statements [now about 5 so far] that have no biblical support and in fact is the complete opposite of what Christ and Paul said to do which is to have nothing to do with false teachers and doctrines, and doers of evil deeds.

Nothing further to say about good works except that Christ will judge people and that there are no good works which are considered bad in the Bible.

I continue to notice that you ignore my request for your unbiblical statement about the devil doing something or other. Nevermind, I uderstand why you are ignoring it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I scarcely know a couple hundred people in all of my life so I cannot speak for the billions of people since the dawn of time and their groups and their morals.

I completely disagree with your view that some people should stay in their church if they rather pull away. Here is yet another of your statements [now about 5 so far] that have no biblical suppor ...[text shortened]... tement about the devil doing something or other. Nevermind, I uderstand why you are ignoring it.

If you do not forgive, God will not forgive you.

The command to forgive must also be followed.

I already gave the good works that are bad. Good works based on self interest are bad. You must have faith that drives your works. This message is both in James and Romans.

Originally posted by Eladar
If you do not forgive, God will not forgive you.

The command to forgive must also be followed.

Forgiving is not the issue with false teachers and evildoers. These are to be avoided.

In the case of personal abuse, eg if a priest molests someone it is possible to forgive and still move away from that priest. Forgiving does not and cannot mean that one should stick around.

Originally posted by Eladar
If you do not forgive, God will not forgive you.

The command to forgive must also be followed.

I already gave the good works that are bad. Good works based on self interest are bad. You must have faith that drives your works. This message is both in James and Romans.

Do you have a reference that says good works are bad. I would be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

And the quote about the devil

": .. It is a common deception of the Devil to tell people they do not need to follow all of God's commands, just some and you are good to go .."

Is that somewhere in the Bible?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you have a reference that says good works are bad. I would be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

And the quote about the devil

": .. It is a common deception of the Devil to tell people they do not need to follow all of God's commands, just some and you are good to go .."

Is that somewhere in the Bible?

Do you have a reference that says works done devoid of faith are good and bring about salvation?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you have a reference that says works done devoid of faith are good and bring about salvation?

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:3-10 KJV)

Nowhere does Jesus Christ ever say 'blessed are those who have faith for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven'.

Originally posted by Rajk999
[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pu ...[text shortened]... es Jesus Christ ever say 'blessed are those who have faith for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven'.

Jesus did say repent and believe the gospel. How do you believe the gospel without faith?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Jesus did say repent and believe the gospel. How do you believe the gospel without faith?

Jesus was not big on faith. Jesus was big on repentance from past sins, living righteously and on doing good works. This is what He preached because this is what determins whether a man is given eternal life or cast into the lake of fire.

In any case I dont think you even know what Jesus means by 'believe the gospel'. I could bet you have a pile of mumbo jumbo in your head about what 'the gospel' means. Just like this going to heaven business which is not in the Bible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
[i]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pu ...[text shortened]... es Jesus Christ ever say 'blessed are those who have faith for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven'.

Literalists are the bane of my existence.

They're like that guy who stops at yellow lights.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Forgiving is not the issue with false teachers and evildoers. These are to be avoided.

In the case of personal abuse, eg if a priest molests someone it is possible to forgive and still move away from that priest. Forgiving does not and cannot mean that one should stick around.

I didn't say you had to go back to the same church.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you have a reference that says good works are bad. I would be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

And the quote about the devil

": .. It is a common deception of the Devil to tell people they do not need to follow all of God's commands, just some and you are good to go .."

Is that somewhere in the Bible?

Try Genesis and the fruit.

Originally posted by Eladar
Try Genesis and the fruit.

So now you admit that it is not a quote, but just your interpretation of the Bible. Right.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So now you admit that it is not a quote, but just your interpretation of the Bible. Right.

Of course it was not a quote. If it was a quote I would have quoted it.

If you want to call telling Eve to eat the fruit because you don't have to follow God's commands an interpretation, go for it.