in your face god

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So the child rapist will go to heaven because he 'came to God' and the lifelong child worker goes to hell?

No, its more like the sinner goes to Hell, and the other sinner got saved.
You want to wrap up human standards when I've told you all have sinned.
All have been counted sinners and all can be saved, you want to pick the most
worthy to be saved when in fact none of us are worthy.
Kelly

Originally posted by stellspalfie
therefore in your world it doesnt matter what you do with your life, how cruel or violent you are. as long as you repent you are golden. who in their right mind would want to buy into a system like that.

All have sinned and fallen short and the way has been made for all to be saved.
You seem to like others here want to pick and choose the most worthy to be
saved. I guess you like the idea of making God accept you on your own merit.
If that is what you want, go for it, it will fail.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, its more like the sinner goes to Hell, and the other sinner got saved.
You want to wrap up human standards when I've told you all have sinned.
All have been counted sinners and all can be saved, you want to pick the most
worthy to be saved when in fact none of us are worthy.
Kelly

Great post.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Great post.

Matthew 7:14
How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

Sad thing is very few will find it even though they are told over and over.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
All have sinned and fallen short and the way has been made for all to be saved.
You seem to like others here want to pick and choose the most worthy to be
saved. I guess you like the idea of making God accept you on your own merit.
If that is what you want, go for it, it will fail.
Kelly

"All have sinned and fallen short "

in what way has a baby sinned?????


You seem to like others here want to pick and choose the most worthy to be
saved.

no, you have missed the point. personally i dont want god to judge anybody. i believe in curing and helping people not punishing them.



I guess you like the idea of making God accept you on your own merit.

firstly i dont want or need to be accepted by god in the same way i dont need to be validated by anyone in life other than those i love and respect.

if god is going to have a system then measuring each individual by their merits seems like a sensible way to do things. why would this system fail?

Originally posted by KellyJay
All have sinned and fallen short and the way has been made for all to be saved.
You seem to like others here want to pick and choose the most worthy to be
saved. I guess you like the idea of making God accept you on your own merit.
If that is what you want, go for it, it will fail.
Kelly

how did god decide what would be a sin?

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, its more like the sinner goes to Hell, and the other sinner got saved.
You want to wrap up human standards when I've told you all have sinned.
All have been counted sinners and all can be saved, you want to pick the most
worthy to be saved when in fact none of us are worthy.
Kelly

I don't want to pick the most worthy to be saved, to me it's all a load of silly nonsense. I don't subscribe to it at all Kelly.

I just find it curious how decent people like yourself can subscribe to such a grotesque system. You wrap up what is quite clearly an immoral God in terms such as 'justice, grace, love', when it is quite clearly anything but that.

in what way has a baby sinned?????

Many of us Christians do not worry about the sinning of a baby in this regard.

We recall that in the book of Jonah God said that there were thousands who were not worthy to be judged because they didn't know their left hand from their right hand.

God tells his prophet "And I, should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city, in which ar emore than a hudnred and twenty thousand people who cannot discern between their right hand and their left ... ?" (Jonah 4:11)

God even knew the COUNT of the number of such people. There is no need to take "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and hunt for some exception.

I know that I have sinned. I know if you do not that you also have sinned.
Exploiting the passage to lay hold of some possible exception will not change that certainly YOU have sinned and I have sinned and virtually " all have sinned ".

Some may say, "But I have not sinned!" But such a person has also left a trail of people in life who would testify that, YES you did on an occasion sin against them. And many times they would be telling the truth.

The passage also says that all have fallen short of the glory of God. You see Christ was not only sinless. Christ was glorious. He was not just good. He was good in a resplendent and glorious way. He was spectacularly righteous. All others have fallen short of the glory of God. Are you glorious? Are you gloriously good ?

Beside the Lord Jesus we have all sinned and have all come short of the glorious expression of goodness unto which God originally created man.

no, you have missed the point. personally i dont want god to judge anybody. i believe in curing and helping people not punishing them.

The Great Physician is Christ.

"And Jesus answered and said to them, Those who are healthy have no need of a physician, but those who are ill; I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:31)

Maybe you don't think you are sinful. Maybe you don't think your need the Physician to heal you of your sin sickness.

Maybe you only see the faults of the "other person". They over there - need a doctor. But not you. Them over there. They are the sinners. But not you.

This is self deception. You may see only the OTHER persons need for healing. You need to see your own need for healing, for forgiveness, and your own need for the Savior Jesus.

It is vain for you to leap at the excuse of little babies who you think have not sinned. Your case is not that of being a little baby.

Whatever that little one year old baby's situation is, that is not your situation.

Rather than see my own need for salvation why should I argue that God should be unrighteous NOT to judge anyone ? Why should I imagine He is not in the business of healing? Obvioulsy the Savior is into healing.

What you do not appreciate is that God's healing involves so radical a new beginning. The whole thing of the past has to be put away entirely.

God's diagnoses is realistic and according to truth.
The unrepentant sinner's diagnoses is superficial if existent at all.
The unrepentant sinner only sees the fault of the other person and not his own fault.

It is good that you say that you are for helping people. But your help does not go to the root of man's problem. Your help is not radical - ie. to go to the root of something.

Jesus is for healing. Jesus is for helping. Jesus is the Great Physician.
But Jesus goes to the root of the sinner's illness.
And some do not want this kind of Physician because they do not want to believe the illness is that deep or that they are in need of this Doctor at all.

I thank God for the night all the world grew strangly dim, and the light of God shined on MY case primarily. I needed forgiveness. I needed salvation. I needed the Lord, the Savior the Son of God.

Originally posted by sonship

in what way has a baby sinned?????

Many of us Christians do not worry about the sinning of a baby in this regard.

We recall that in the book of [b]Jonah God said that there were thousands who were not worthy to be judged because they didn't know their left hand from their right hand. [/b]

God tells his prophet "And I, shou giveness. I needed salvation. I needed the Lord, the Savior the Son of God.

Many of us Christians do not worry about the sinning of a baby in this regard


kelly said - all have sinned.
i also recall christians on here saying (i think kelly was one of them, i apologize if not) that babies are born with a evil nature. if this is the way many christians think, then its fair to use babies as an example of the bizarre nature of 'all have sin'.


not worthy to be judged

'not worthy'!!!! what a horrible choice of words, is this your wording or biblical?


Maybe you don't think you are sinful. Maybe you don't think your need the Physician to heal you of your sin sickness.

i know im not sinful, i dont believe in sin. i agree that there should be laws to help protect and govern society, but they are laws that we as a collective agree on. i dont subscribe to having laws dictated to by god, especially as so many of his laws are repugnant.

i dont believe in good and evil, i believe we are products of our dna and environment and that our brains are delicate things that can develop faults, i believe science should strive to help people who develop personality flaws, only if they are a problem to the health and well being of society or they choose to seek help. i dont believe in perfection, as it subjective. your god is perfect to you, he seems like a wnker to me.

you want everybody to become this image of perfection you have through god/jesus....i think one of the great things about humanity is the inability for perfection creates the excitement of diversity which make life so good, it gives us perspective.

if everybody was 'perfect', then we would all make the same choices and do the same things, it would be impossible to differentiate between people..........you would end up having a society full of automatons, dull, boring, lifeless......you can keep your heaven and your perfect god. give me a bunch a friends and family warts and all and i wouldnt change a thing about them.

kelly said - all have sinned.

Yes. Kelly was quoting the book of Romans, which in turn was, I think, quoting one of the OT prophets.

We learn not only what the Bible says but what it also says.
I simply submitted to what the Bible said with what else the Bible said.
This is the way an honest reader gets a fuller picture.

I did this because you were seizing on the word "all" ... "all have sinned" for a rational to doubt the validity of the passage.

Ie. "A baby can't be said to have sinned. So all have sinned is not true."

i also recall christians on here saying (i think kelly was one of them, i apologize if not) that babies are born with a evil nature. if this is the way many christians think, then its fair to use babies as an example of the bizarre nature of 'all have sin'.

I regard this matter as somewhat aside from the intent of that passage.

I believe that all born of Adam have the fallen Adamic nature which is full of the power of sin.

The Jonah passage I quoted shows that God is not ignorant to the level of accountability even fallen sons of Adam have. He was both reluctant to have to judge the city and he reminded Jonah that thousands lived there who should be exempted from a judgment on Nineveh.

The key is to remember these things as one goes through the whole Bible. Then things can better be placed into perspective.

not worthy to be judged

'not worthy'!!!! what a horrible choice of words, is this your wording or biblical?

My wording may not be the best. You are exploiting various rationals. However better you would like to discribe it, it is evident that God told Jonah that there were more than 120,000 human beings in Nineveh who deserved divine PITY rather than divine judgment.

Now if you have a better way to describe this than how I expressed it, that is fine with me.

"And I [God], should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city, in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot discern between their right hand and their left ..."

You are welcomed to express this in better words as long as you really grasp the essential truth being conveyed there.

i know im not sinful, i dont believe in sin.

Then you are not unhappy with hypocretical religious people ?

Then your railings against those bad bad religious types, is not really a problem for you ?

I fear that you don't believe in sin ONLY when it applies to yourself.
You believe in sin, I think, when it is God you wish to accuse of wrong doing, or the crimes of Christians who give you reason to dismiss the Christian gospel.

When you said that God was an evil mass murderer, did you NOT believe in sin at that moment ? I thought you were really saying that God sins with evil mass murders.

i agree that there should be laws to help protect and govern society, but they are laws that we as a collective agree on. i dont subscribe to having laws dictated to by god, especially as so many of his laws are repugnant.

Do you think the law written on your heart by which you intuitively know that something is right or something is wrong - is that too repugnant to you ?

That you intuitively feel that certain things are just right and that other things are just wrong, instinctively, intuitively, ... is that feeling in you repugnant to you?

If not then you cannot say God creating in you a conscience which simply knows what it knows what it knows about certain moral matters, is repugnant to you. In fact you are rather proud of that knowledge.

You may not credit that intuitive sense to God. I would say God has created that sense in you. We are created in the image of God. No other creature on the earth has that exact keeness of moral sense as humans do.

It is not coincidental, I think, that of all the living creatures, only of man do we see God taking a special council and declaring - 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness ... And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them." (See Genesis 1:26,27)

Our uniqueness among all other living things, I believe, is because we alone are created in the image of God in this way. The moral keeness of our conscience, aside from written law - human or heavenly, indicates something special in our creation.

If our Source did not have this ability within Himself to give, how could He bestow it ? How could the effect be greater than the cause ?

The Source of man must have it in itself to be able to bestow the same upon that created.

The Psalmist puts it well -

" He who planted the ear, does He not hear ?
And He who formed the eye, does He not see ? " (Psalm 94:9)

Our created being reflects God our Creator in many ways.

Tell me something. I notice that many times when a murderer kills many people, at the last he or she will also commit suicide. I have noticed this in many cases.

Someone will take a gun and kill scores of innocent people that he does not even know. Then afterwards he will turn his gun to himself and lastly destroy his own life.

Why is that so often the case? If you ask me I think it has to do with the deep realization that he has done something terribly wrong. His conscience will not let him get away. Lastly, in many cases, he knows that he is no longer worthy to live himself.

I say something of the moral law of God is written in man's heart.
Being an atheist doesn't erase that.
Being atheist only causes the man to attribute that moral ability to something else - perhaps advanced interactions of molecules in some evolutionary process.

i dont believe in good and evil,

Yes you do. You previously accused God as being evil.
You see, like the child who wants to slap her mother on the face - she has to sit on the mother's lap in order to be able to reach the mother's face.

You cannot reach the face of God to slap it unless you stand upon the moral sense He has created in you. You have to sit on God's lap in order to reach up and slap God on the face.

i believe we are products of our dna and environment and that our brains are delicate things that can develop faults, i believe science should strive to help people who develop personality flaws, only if they are a problem to the health and well being of society or they choose to seek help. i dont believe in perfection, as it subjective. your god is perfect to you, he seems like a wnker to me.

I think Jesus Christ exceeds all other men on the earth in righteousness. And He taught that He was God become a man.

Why couldn't a brilliant scientist like Einstien remain faithful to his first wife ?
Even the brilliant scientist like Einstien was weak to the temptation to discard his dear wife in unfaithfulness.

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

you want everybody to become this image of perfection you have through god/jesus....i think one of the great things about humanity is the inability for perfection creates the excitement of diversity which make life so good, it gives us perspective.

I think nothing will be more exciting and diverse than eternal life among billiions of people conformed to the image of Christ.

The New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 and 22, which I think is symbolic, does not indicate an unexciting existence to me. Indeed, already as a Christian, I have had more excitement than I ever dreamed was possible.

if everybody was 'perfect', then we would all make the same choices and do the same things, it would be impossible to differentiate between people..........you would end up having a society full of automatons, dull, boring, lifeless......you can keep your heaven and your perfect god. give me a bunch a friends and family warts and all and i wouldnt change a thing about them.

I don't see the eternal destiny of the saved to be in "my heaven". Rather I see the entire universe under the administration of the Godman Jesus Christ.

I believe that the globe, the solar system, the galaxy, indeed the local group of galaxies, and the universe are all a future part of those to whom eternal life has been granted. Eternity is endless possibilities of joy.

I do not know the detail of this. But I think I regard the universe as testifying the endless expansion of the kingdom of God. Isaiah 9:7 says -

" To the increase of His government and to His peace there is no end ..."

Try as desparately as you do, I have not seen one excuse you have ever offered to convince me that your philosophy offers man anything better than what is offered through salvation in Christ.

I have a sense that all the universe is the real estate of Christ in eternity.
I don't think you ever come up with anything better than the Son of God and His unsearchably rich salvation.

When am I going to see you offer us someone or something better ?

Originally posted by sonship

kelly said - all have sinned.

Yes. Kelly was quoting the book of Romans, which in turn was, I think, quoting one of the OT prophets.

We learn not only what the Bible says but what it also says.
I simply submitted to what the Bible said with what [b]else the Bible said.
This is the way an honest reader gets a fuller pict ...[text shortened]... n am I going to see you offer us someone or something better ?[/b]

Then your railings against those bad bad religious types, is not really a problem for you ?

im not railing against bad religious types. i find it hard to understand some of the things you guys believe (some more than others). i dont consider the likes of you as bad, you are probably a nice guy (rj is a different story). i think some of the things you follow are a bit screwed up and immoral, but id put that down to the blindness to logic and common sense that believing in god causes. to me being a true christian is like being an alcoholic, the addiction and the emotional neediness is so strong, straight thinking goes out of the window, just as an alcoholic can justify any reason to drink, a christian will justify any action by god.
but i dont believe christians are bad people. (some are, as are some atheists)



I fear that you don't believe in sin ONLY when it applies to yourself.
You believe in sin,

no, i defiantly dont believe in sin. i only accuse god of sin because im placing myself in a world where god exists and in that world sin exists, im speaking hypothetically. hypothetically if the christian god exists then he is a sinful monster. in the christian world i would have a few minor sins to my name - sex before marriage, the odd white lie, a bit of pot smoking in my youth. i stole a photocopier at works party once.......but i returned it when i sobered up, ive lusted after a few women (but would never act on it) and lost my temper a handful of times, all minor stuff compared to gods mass murdering ways.....

in my world those 'sins' do not even register as bad things, all part of life.



Do you think the law written on your heart by which you intuitively know that something is right or something is wrong

the laws that are intuitive are simply the result of evolution. we are pack animals, that work better in large communities it there fore stands to reason that we dont kill each other, that if we are nice then people will be nice back. these personality traits come in useful where food is scarce and conditions are bad.
although we are more sophisticated with these skills, you are wrong if you think they are unique. there are lots of examples of animals in the wild that survive using team work, working as groups, protecting each other, self sacrifice for the group and so on.


Do you think the law written on your heart by which you intuitively know that something is right or something is wrong - is that too repugnant to you ?

why would they be repugnant, most are good and help society work. i called some of gods laws repugnant. some of his laws are different to mine. he kills, i dont. he punishes for not loving him, i dont. i think there are some instincts in humans that historically were repugnant, i think as time goes on we seem to be loosing more and more of those negative instincts.


Tell me something. I notice that many times when a murderer kills many people, at the last he or she will also commit suicide. I have noticed this in many cases.

there are many reasons why people kill themselves after killing sprees. suicide, because they feel bad is not one of them. usually its all part of the fantasy, their own death at the end they feel elevates their status, it gives them a feeling of immortality, stardom, some sort of twisted anti-hero dream of notoriety.
i think you are way off the mark. if anything the suicide is a further sign of their 'sin' rather than a glimpse of their 'morality'.

i dont believe in good and evil,

Yes you do. You previously accused God as being evil.

no i dont believe in evil, as i explained before. i have to place myself in a world where god exists to discuss your beliefs. i believe what you call 'evil' is down to complex issues involving dna, life experience and brain/hormone problems. things that i hope in the future we will have eradicated.

most people who commit 'evil' acts have suffered from abuse as children. how do you reconcile this with people being 'evil'. the evidence would suggest that its life events that damage us not some inherent bad nature.


I don't see the eternal destiny of the saved to be in "my heaven". Rather I see the entire universe under the administration of the Godman Jesus Christ.


how do you define perfection, what does it mean to you? how does this apply to jesus?


When am I going to see you offer us someone or something better ?

im not trying to offer 'better' (although i do think its better). have you seen the matrix movie? morphieus isnt offering 'better' to neo, he's offering reality.

Originally posted by stellspalfie

have you seen the matrix movie? morphieus isnt offering 'better' to neo, he's offering reality.[/b]

It's just a movie.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]"All have sinned and fallen short "

in what way has a baby sinned?????


You seem to like others here want to pick and choose the most worthy to be
saved.

no, you have missed the point. personally i dont want god to judge anybody. i believe in curing and helping people not punishing them.



I guess you like the idea of ma ...[text shortened]... individual by their merits seems like a sensible way to do things. why would this system fail?

[/b]Our race was subjected to sin from the first man on, with respect to babies
I believe their innocents will count which was what we had before the fall.
You don't get a say in how reality was setup, so your desire to not judge does
not come into play, I'd also disagree with you, you judge people here. I'd also
say some people do not want cured, what then? It is God's Kingdom where
those that come to God will live, if you reject the Kingdom you are left outside
of it, where there is weeping and nashing of teeth, again your choice, if you
reject God, so be it.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I don't want to pick the most worthy to be saved, to me it's all a load of silly nonsense. I don't subscribe to it at all Kelly.

I just find it curious how decent people like yourself can subscribe to such a grotesque system. You wrap up what is quite clearly an immoral God in terms such as 'justice, grace, love', when it is quite clearly anything but that.

I get that you do not subscribe to it, not sure what you think is going on in this
life if anything? Your beliefs about this as mine don't change reality, I also do
not think it is a grotesque system, I'm not one that believes evil is just a natural
part of life, and it is no different than good. For me the fact that justice will be
served and evil has a dead end coming that will last forever, takes this way
out of the grotesque system phase, and places it in a universe that has hope.
Kelly

im not railing against bad religious types.

Perhaps railing is the wrong word. Perhaps "criticize" is what I should say.

If I notice you doing so, excuse me if I point it out to you. I think we can find an example before this post is completed.

You do have a measuring rod of some type by which you measure good behavior and bad behavior. Just admit it. Why deny it?

i find it hard to understand some of the things you guys believe (some more than others).

There is no harm in admitting "Hey there are some things you Christians say which are hard, really hard to understand."

You are correct in that with me I am sure. There are some things I write hear that I know full well are hard for people to understand.

There is a Holy Spirit Who can lead us into the truth. Looking back over the path that I came, I know that this was true for me. I believe it will be true for others. Some things hard to understand become more apparent in the future.

i dont consider the likes of you as bad, you are probably a nice guy (rj is a different story).

That is complemetary. Thankyou. Now that is a value judgment that indicates to me that you have some kind of measuring rod by which you discriminate nice as opposed to not nice.

You do have a sense of good and evil. Can't you see ? That is part of being human.

i think some of the things you follow are a bit screwed up and immoral, but id put that down to the blindness to logic and common sense that believing in god causes. to me being a true christian is like being an alcoholic, the addiction and the emotional neediness is so strong, straight thinking goes out of the window, just as an alcoholic can justify any reason to drink, a christian will justify any action by god.

There are things in the Bible which are difficult cases for me to explain. I admit that. There are some difficult passages. I can offer my opinion.

I think the difficult passages are far outweighed by expressions of God's love, forbearance, mercy, kindness.

But there are some difficult portions. I expect to be bothered by some of the things God did in the thousands of years history of God interacting with man. I do not expect that He always is easily comprehended in His actions.

I have some things on the "back burner." I guess I never stopped reading the Bible because of reading the book of Joshua. My main entrance into the Bible came through the New Testament and Jesus Christ. Jesus was my verstibule into the Bible.

I began to take the Old Testament seriously when I eventually noticed that Jesus the Son of God seemed to take the Old Testament seriously. I made the decision that if He took it seriously then it must be taken so by me also.

The integrity of Jesus is to me beyond question.
Christ's nobility and goodness is to me beyond reproach - the highest level of human goodness that has ever existed.

So then, with the several very difficult portions of the Bible, I expect that as I am more conformed to the character of Jesus, I will understand better. I believe that the problem in understanding what God did is often due to our not having the mind of Christ.

We are exhorted to be renewed in our minds by God -

" .. do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the nenewing of the mind that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and well poleasing and perfect." (Romans 12:2)

I believe also that one day I will see that God will say to me " In many things I was right and you were wrong."

But in some things God may say "I was right. But you were right also."

no, i defiantly dont believe in sin. i only accuse god of sin because im placing myself in a world where god exists and in that world sin exists, im speaking hypothetically.

I don't think it is practically possible to live in the world as if you do not believe that something like sinful deeds don't exist.

You no doubt have keys. You have keys for your car. You have keys for your house. Perhaps you have keys for other things. You have perhaps a password for your PC.

Why do you have these keys? Practically, you need to guard against the taking of your possessions by someone who does not own them. You are concerned for the transgression of stealing.

If you choose not to call stealing sinning, that is your choice. Call it "foobar". Call it "gumba" is you wish. You know that wrong doing is a fact of life.
Somehow you think denying "sinning" puts some distance between you and the word of God.

But practically speaking you cannot live within the recognition that people do wrongly. They do what they ought NOT to do.

hypothetically if the christian god exists then he is a sinful monster.

Maybe you misinterpret and you err in your judgment.

I can think of no one more qualified to pronounce judgment against God than Jesus Christ. His morality exemplifies that He is qualified to make that judgment.

But did Christ ever teach that God was a sinful monster? Christ said - "Righteous Father, though the world has not known You, yet I have known You and these have known that You have sent Me." (John 17:25)

Christ refered to God as His Father, and as His "Righteous Father".

Now either He was prejudiced and blind OR He spoke the truth.
I believe that Christ spoke the true nature of reality.
His Father is the Righteous Father. And the Righteous God also sent the Son into the world - " You have sent Me ".

The sending of Jesus Christ is evidence of the eternal righteousness of God, to me.

Now I can believe this and still admit that there are some places in the history of God dealing with man which are difficult as of yet, for me to fully understand.

Besides, if you do not believe that the cosmic buck of RIGHTNESS stops with God, then with WHO does it stop ? Does it stop with you?

When I consider some of the things I have thought, imagined, said and done, it is not surprising to me that I would not always AGREE with God in His actions. I believe that the day will come when I will agree for I will fully have the mind of Christ.

in the christian world i would have a few minor sins to my name - sex before marriage, the odd white lie, a bit of pot smoking in my youth. i stole a photocopier at works party once.......

I think that if you ever began to confess your known sins in the light of God's presence, you would find many many more things to admit to God that you had sinned.

It is good that you do see something. You humbly admit that you are aware of some offenses. It is only the tip of a vast iceberg.

The good news is that the redemption of Christ makes us as if we had never sinned at all before God. In fact we were judged on His cross. He did not overlook my sins. He JUDGED them in Christ on Calvary.

Go to Christ and say "Lord Jesus, God has not overlooked my sins. I was judged for my sins in your death on Calvary on Your cross. Every sin was dealt with in your atoning death on my behalf. Thankyou Lord Jesus."

If you pray to God in this way the whole universe will become a new place to you. The tons of things you have carried around unaware will roll away from your heart.

Be careful. You may become like me. "Others HAVE to know the good fortune that has happened to me in coming to the Son of God."

but i returned it when i sobered up, ive lusted after a few women (but would never act on it) and lost my temper a handful of times, all minor stuff compared to gods mass murdering ways.....

God is not interested in sinners groveling or begging. God does not joy to see you grovel.

God IS interested in something. That is our BELIEVING in Christ's death and resurrection for our salvation.

My tears do not cleanse me from my sins. It is the blood of Jesus which has cleansed me of my sins. The passage of a long time has not cleansed me of my transgressions. It is the blood of Jesus that has cleansed me.

Even my tears need to be washed in His blood.

God told Job to stand up like a man.
He doesn't want the sinner to hate himself.
He does want the sinner to believe in Christ.

Emphatically, it is not our regret that absolves us before God. It is Christ's redemption that clears our record absolutely before God. Our history becomes Christ Himself. And God then looks upon us as if we had never sinned.

"How much more will the blood of Christ, who though the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." (Hebrews 9:14)

And again - "For I will be propitious to their unrighteousnesses, and theirs sins I shall BY NO MEANS REMEMBER ANYMORE." (Hebrews 8:12 my emphasis)

Then we can began to live a life united with the Son of God. We can live a life mingled with the life giving Spirit Who is the Holy Spirit - Christ in His pneumatic form.

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

in my world those 'sins' do not even register as bad things, all part of life.

A part of life, you say, because we have only known the world in this way.
Then a sinless One comes - Jesus Christ. He is normal.
Normality in human life is Jesus Christ.

The distance between Him and we is because we are abnormal, fallen and do not realize to what extent we have become fallen from what God intended by human being.

The New Testament is a testament about the Normal Man.
We need to be saved before God from our terrible fall into abnormality.

That we should be free from both sin AND [b...