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    23 Feb '15 10:22
    Some people in this forum seem to believe that President Obama is the "Beast" or an incarnation of satan.

    Is this your view, or similar to your view?

    Do you think that someone else in the world is an incarnation of the "Beast"?
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    23 Feb '15 12:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Some people in this forum seem to believe that President Obama is the "Beast" or an incarnation of satan.

    Is this your view, or similar to your view?

    Do you think that someone else in the world is an incarnation of the "Beast"?
    Putin
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    23 Feb '15 15:003 edits
    Originally posted by judas priest the 3rd
    Putin
    Too many people are superficial in their spirituality and actually are mostly living more by some philosophy of the natural man.

    So many Chrisians in the US do not live by Christ. They live by their national philosophy or their domestic survival logic which they have derived from some aspect of their culture.

    If something represents the great threat to this built up cultural philosophies they are likely to designate that threat as the Antichrist.


    It is not that much different from Middle Eastern cultural Moslems identifying America as "The Great Satan."
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    23 Feb '15 15:51
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Some people in this forum seem to believe that President Obama is the "Beast" or an incarnation of satan.

    Is this your view, or similar to your view?

    Do you think that someone else in the world is an incarnation of the "Beast"?
    No, I don't believe he is.

    But I do believe that people like Obama are laying the foundation by grabbing power and centralizing power.
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    23 Feb '15 17:091 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    But I do believe that people like Obama are laying the foundation by grabbing power and centralizing power.
    Can you think of any world leader in history who has maintained their position by giving power away and decentralising power?
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    23 Feb '15 17:519 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Can you think of any world leader in history who has maintained their position by giving power away and decentralising power?
    The vast majority of mankind has been subjected to slavery and/or tyranny. It is the nature of man. Ironically, it runs contrary to what is known as natural law. Go figure.

    So if the US had not become a collectivist state and fought off other collectivists states like Hitler and Stalin, would it have survived? Probably not, but who knows. These collectivist states are cash cows that are able to build world conquering armies.

    The problem is fighting off these evil collectivists statists by gearing up and becoming like them is that you then tend to become what you are trying to fight off.

    It reminds me of the early history of the US. The US had just won a bloody Revolutionary war to rid itself of a tyrannical power, only to pass the Alien and Sedition laws that prohibited people from speaking out against their government.

    Although Jefferson successfully removed much of these laws later on, and did just fine without them, the remaining laws were used by the collectivist FDR to imprison innocent Japanese Americans during WW2.

    It is then no surprise the FDR is someone the left and Obama look up to. They all play a part in preparing the way for abject tyranny.
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    23 Feb '15 18:24
    "On Christ the solid rock I stand.
    All other ground is sinking sand."


    If what you live you are afraid can be destroyed then it is not in resurrection. What has gone through death and resurrection is beyond the possibility of destruction.

    What Christ imparts into people is something and Someone that can never be taken away or destroyed.

    If you feel your house is on sinking sand maybe its because you need to be more attentive that your house is built on Christ the solid rock.
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    23 Feb '15 18:481 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    "On Christ the solid rock I stand.
    All other ground is sinking sand."


    If what you live you are afraid can be destroyed then it is not in resurrection. What has gone through death and resurrection is beyond the possibility of destruction.

    What Christ imparts into people is something and Someone that can never be taken away or d ...[text shortened]... ybe its because you need to be more attentive that your house is built on Christ the solid rock.
    I am continually bemused by Christians who see demons in those corridors of power which represent the political opposition, but are apparently immune to seeing the same in their own chosen representatives.
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    23 Feb '15 19:47
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I am continually bemused by Christians who see demons in those corridors of power which represent the political opposition, but are apparently immune to seeing the same in their own chosen representatives.
    What you are suggesting is a more accurate understanding of what the reality is. All the governments of the world belong to Satan.
    (Luke 4:5-7) So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.”
    If the specific "Beast" referred to is from Revelation 13:1,2, this referrence maight be of interest:
    The seven-headed wild beast out of the sea. In the vision had by the apostle John and recorded at Revelation 13, a seven-headed, ten-horned wild beast comes up out of the sea, leopardlike, yet with feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. It is thus a composite form of several of the symbols appearing in Daniel’s vision of the four beasts. The dragon, identified at Revelation 12:9 as Satan the Devil, gives the beast its authority and power. (Re 13:1, 2) This beast’s seven heads (bearing ten horns) distinguish it from the one-headed beasts of Daniel’s vision. Seven (and ten) are commonly acknowledged as Biblical symbols of completeness. (See NUMBER, NUMERAL.) This is corroborated by the extent of this beast’s domain, for it exercises authority, not over one nation or a group of nations, but “over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.” (Re 13:7, 8; compare 16:13, 14.) Noting these factors, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible comments: “The first of these beasts [of Re 13] combines in itself the joint characteristics of the four beasts of Daniel’s vision . . . Accordingly, this first beast represents the combined forces of all political rule opposed to God in the world.”—Edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 369.
    So, it seems that the "Beast" is not an individual but rather a "coalition" of governments. Is that possible in our day?
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    23 Feb '15 19:561 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I am continually bemused by Christians who see demons in those corridors of power which represent the political opposition, but are apparently immune to seeing the same in their own chosen representatives.
    It might be amusing more if it weren't for the fact that some people not founded on bedrock may react in crazy ways to seeing their culture shaking.

    As some things are being shaken, some people will freak out and react in freaked out ways.

    The church in the 21rst century will have to be built upon so very, very solid a foundation of living Christ.

    The writer of Hebrews speaks of "an unshakable kingdom" (Hebrew 12:28) in the face of God allowing everything in heaven and earth to be shaken.

    'Whose voice at that time shook the earth but now has promised, saying, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven. ' And this word, "Yet once more," shows clearly the removal of the things being shaken as being of things having been made, that the things which are not shaken may remain.

    Therefore receiving and unshakable kingdom, let us have grace, through which we may serve God well-pleasingly with piety and fear." (Heb. 12:26-28)


    All things that CAN be shaken will be shaken. So now is the time to take the time to be rooted deeply in the unshakable truth of Christ our King.
    I don't want to wait until the last minute.
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    23 Feb '15 20:11
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I am continually bemused by Christians who see demons in those corridors of power which represent the political opposition, but are apparently immune to seeing the same in their own chosen representatives.
    I would agree.

    "W" is no better than Obama.
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    23 Feb '15 20:124 edits
    Originally posted by roigam
    What you are suggesting is a more accurate understanding of what the reality is. All the governments of the world belong to Satan.
    I could give you a fistful of scriptures that prove your assertion wrong, but this one will probably be sufficient:

    Romans 13:1 NKJ
    "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God"

    NIV version for contrast:
    "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God"
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    23 Feb '15 20:391 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I could give you a fistful of scriptures that prove your assertion wrong, but this one will probably be sufficient:

    Romans 13:1 NKJ
    [b]"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God"


    NIV version for contrast:
    "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, ...[text shortened]... ept that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God"[/b]
    So long as they do not contradict the authority of God.

    Keep in mind, men like Paul were murdered by their rulers specifically for their faith which was deemed illegal.
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    23 Feb '15 20:531 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    So long as they do not contradict the authority of God.

    Keep in mind, men like Paul were murdered by their rulers specifically for their faith which was deemed illegal.
    I know; I'm trying to create some contrasting debate from the usual religious "SiFi" perspective I.e. "Obama is the antichrist and is really Damien Thorn in greasepaint" sort of rhetoric.
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    23 Feb '15 21:37
    The internet. Mark my words, it is only a matter of time before it becomes self aware!!!!!!!!!!!!
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