Originally posted by Rajk999 Christ always, always, always after telling someone that they are forgiven, say that GO AND SIN NO MORE. Sin is the problem. The forgiveness part is easy. But you cannot continue to tempt God and sin over and over without dire consequences.
Originally posted by CalJust This post is in response to recent posts in various threads referring to salvation and eternal damnation, e.g. In Revelations 20.
Consider the worst murderers you know: Manson, Jack the Ripper, Hitler.
OK, let's take Hitler. He killed 6 million people. Let's say he tortured those 6million and then burned them in gas ovens. Now multiply that by a thous ...[text shortened]... ee if there maybe something really abhorrent about that idea, which demands another explanation.
I've made this same argument. Hitler could serve 100 years in hell for each and every person he caused to be killed or injured, and even after all that ... he'd just be getting started serving his sentence.
That is the utter cruelty of an eternal sentence. No matter how much misery you endure, you are still just getting started with the torment.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Actually, repentance AND refraining from sin, like Christ said, is the key. There comes a point when asking for forgiveness falls on deaf ears.
Did Christ tell you that? How many times? Twice? Three times? Four? A hundred? Maybe a thousand? The answer (for our purposes) is in the Bible.
Originally posted by Suzianne Did Christ tell you that? How many times? Twice? Three times? Four? A hundred? Maybe a thousand? The answer (for our purposes) is in the Bible.
I made two statements which one are you asking if Christ told me?
If it is about how many times the Bible is clear that there comes a point when there is no more forgiveness of sins.
Originally posted by twhitehead I was referring to barbaric practices such as stoning adulterers. Jesus does not say that it is wrong to do so. Even you do not say it is wrong to do so. You instead say it is right to do so, but you may also be forgiven.
Even I do not say it is wrong to do so?? Where??
I say it IS wrong to do so.
Btw, in the story Jesus clearly implied that it is wrong to stone someone. If he had said it out straight, it would have been HE that was stoned. But by saying: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" he clearly condemned the practice of stoning, since who is without sin!
I thought that was the whole point of the story...
Originally posted by Rank outsider Do you believe that, at some point, there is a time when we are all judged and we are divided into those that go to heaven and those to hell. Period.
At this point, why is there a need to keep on tormenting the sinners? There is clearly no deterrent factor, so why would God do this?
I already said that I dont believe in the eternal torment nonsense.
I believe that there will be a time of judgment when those God considers righteous will be rewarded with eternal life [I dont subscribe to the going to heaven business], and those God considers evil will be punished in the lake of fire. There will be some whose lives are neither good nor evil and they will remain in their graves.
Originally posted by Rajk999 I already said that I dont believe in the eternal torment nonsense.
I believe that there will be a time of judgment when those God considers righteous will be rewarded with eternal life [I dont subscribe to the going to heaven business], and those God considers evil will be punished in the lake of fire. There will be some whose lives are neither good nor evil and they will remain in their graves.
Sorry missed that.
Is there anyone who does believe in this who can explain what purpose an eternal hell serves?
Originally posted by Rank outsider Sorry missed that.
Is there anyone who does believe in this who can explain what purpose an eternal hell serves?
No probs. Here is why they believe in the eternal torment stuff:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It says clearly here that there are three beings tormented for ever and ever, and thats the devil, the beast and the false prophet. Nobody else.
Originally posted by Rajk999 I already said that I dont believe in the eternal torment nonsense.
I believe that there will be a time of judgment when those God considers righteous will be rewarded with eternal life [I dont subscribe to the going to heaven business], and those God considers evil will be punished in the lake of fire. There will be some whose lives are neither good nor evil and they will remain in their graves.
No, the Bible is clear that ALL will receive Judgment. You either make the cut, or you don't. There's no wishy-washy 'middle-of-the-road'.
Originally posted by Rajk999 No probs. Here is why they believe in the eternal torment stuff:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It says clearly here that there are three beings tormented for ever and ever, and thats the devil, the beast and the false prophet. Nobody else.
Originally posted by Suzianne My question was how clear. When does 'that point' come?
Do you know the answer? Or just evading.
Reiterating the question is not an answer.
You have to be the biggest dunce on this forum and this is why I dont normally respond to you, and even when I do I regret it.
I made no comment on when 'that point' comes because the Bible does not tell you any number of times. There must be something sadly wrong with you people who request and expect that kind of answer. If I say that Christ says to do good works then you ask how much, and if Christ did not say how much then you conclude it must be wrong. You are a fool.
Same here .. there is no magic number as God will judge. The Bible says that there comes a point that if you sin there is no more repentance that will be acceptable. End of story .. no number.
Originally posted by Rajk999 No probs. Here is why they believe in the eternal torment stuff:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It says clearly here that there are three beings tormented for ever and ever, and thats the devil, the beast and the false prophet. Nobody else.
So are you just going to ignore the following two verses?
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:18 KJV)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
11 Feb '14 16:49
Is God more cruel than the worst sadist you know?
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