1. Standard membertelerion
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    18 May '05 22:00
    And . . .

    Is God a subset of his own creation?

    (God here is Yahweh)
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    18 May '05 22:10
    Originally posted by telerion
    And . . .

    Is God a subset of his own creation?

    (God here is Yahweh)
    my first thought is to wonder what you mean specifically by 'reality'.

    immediately, i see no reason why the existence of any god would need to be a necessary condition for reality, but i have only a vague notion in my head of what reality is, so i think we need to formulate a defintion of reality before we will get anywhere here...

    do you have a definition in mind?
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    18 May '05 22:23
    Originally posted by LemonJello

    do you have a definition in mind?
    How about this one:

    Reality is all that is created by God.

    Let the typical, fruitful and circular debating commence. Is God the creator of reality?
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    18 May '05 22:38
    Originally posted by telerion
    And . . .

    Is God a subset of his own creation?

    (God here is Yahweh)
    Creation is a subset of GOD. In fact there is nothing that can enter the mind of man, that GOD did not create.
  5. Standard membertelerion
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    18 May '05 22:39
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    my first thought is to wonder what you mean specifically by 'reality'.

    immediately, i see no reason why the existence of any god would need to be a necessary condition for reality, but i have only a vague notion in my head of what reality is, so i think we need to formulate a defintion of reality before we will get anywhere here...

    do you have a definition in mind?
    Hmm . . . this is hard.

    For dj2becker or Coletti, let 'reality' = everything that is real.

    For the rest of us, I don't have a definition yet.
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    18 May '05 22:401 edit
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    In fact there is nothing that can enter the mind of man, that GOD did not create.
    I am thinking of a rock too heavy for God to lift.
  7. Standard membertelerion
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    18 May '05 22:43
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    Creation is a subset of GOD. In fact there is nothing that can enter the mind of man, that GOD did not create.
    Oh so sin and evil are "GOD"
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    18 May '05 22:531 edit
    Originally posted by telerion
    And . . .

    Is God a subset of his own creation?

    (God here is Yahweh)
    Yahweh being the creator in the old testament.

    Since nobody comment on it when I posted it in RBH's Noah thread. I'll use the same arguement.

    genesis chapter 9:11 states

    11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

    So if yahwah exists there should be no floods. Are there any floods today?
    yes therefore Yahwah doesn't exist.

    Further if yahwah doesn't exist, then Jesus's god "the lord" & mohammeds god "allah" which were born out of Yahwah also cannot exist.

    Of course it is entirely possible that god exists in another form, just not Judaismic, Christain or Islamic. Unless you are prepared to discount some of the words from the bible.....................................

    Plus if he doesn't exist then he can't create reality🙂
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    18 May '05 23:10
    Originally posted by telerion
    Oh so sin and evil are "GOD"
    GOD created all Angels and Man to live in the Law of good. But HE also created the Law of evil. The Law in which Angels or Mankind were not to enter into. GOD had created angels and mankind to serve and worship HIM. But HE gave them a choice to do so or not. When certain angels and Adam chose not to serve and obey GOD. That set in motion other laws that neither the diobedient angels or disobediant man knew nothing about. So in that sence GOD did create evil as is written in ISAIAH 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. ISAIAH 45:7
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    18 May '05 23:12
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I am thinking of a rock too heavy for God to lift.
    That rock that GOD will not lift, is a lie. GOD will not lie.
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    18 May '05 23:14
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    GOD will not lie.
    God told Abraham that he wanted him to kill his son.
  12. Standard membertelerion
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    18 May '05 23:25
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    GOD created all Angels and Man to live in the Law of good. But HE also created the Law of evil. The Law in which Angels or Mankind were not to enter into. GOD had created angels and mankind to serve and worship HIM. But HE gave them a choice to do so or not. When certain angels and Adam chose not to serve and obey GOD. That set in motion other laws tha ...[text shortened]... and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. ISAIAH 45:7
    So evil is God. Sounds good bf101.

    I asked you a question that you have not completely answered. Is God the creator of reality?
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    19 May '05 00:08
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    In fact there is nothing that can enter the mind of man, that GOD did not create.
    at first glance, this sentence seems ludicrous. some pretty deranged things enter the minds of deranged men. why would god spend any effort creating such rubbish?

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    19 May '05 00:14
    Originally posted by telerion
    Is God a subset of his own creation?

    (God here is Yahweh)
    supposing we start from an assumption that said god exists and created the universe, i would argue that god cannot be a subset of his own creation. it is not clear to me how something can simultaneously be both the creator and the creation in whole -- i think there would have to be at least some portion of the creator that is not created. thus he would not be a subset of his creation.

    i am far from convinced that i am right here, so i would be interested to hear dissenting opinions.

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    19 May '05 00:17
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    God told Abraham that he wanted him to kill his son.
    GOD tempted Abraham, as it clearly says in GENESIS 22:1 Tempted in that since could also mean, tested his faith and obedience. Also in the way you think HE lied. HE gave Abraham, intructions inwhich Abraham followed until GOD gave him another set of intructions. Which would mean God changed HIS mind.
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