19 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75Sorry to be pedantic, and I dont mean to poo-poo your posts, but I would call them truisms and not truths.
Look back over this when you get the time and you will see many, many referances from outside sources. It's not a waist of time if it shows the truth, right?
Not a big difference really and maybe I'm just being a dick, but I do think it's important to get our language as accurate as possible when dealing with these spiritual matters, as there is already so much confusion with these issues. (ie. like a lot of issues in this forum.) 🙂
Thanks in advance for taking my response in the right spirit
19 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThere are two people God and Jesus. According to stephan from acts 7:56 he see jesus next to God. And it is also in matt. Mark and luke.
I say that Jesus is the one and only invisible God made visible, made lower than the angels. He is the one who sits on Heavens throne.
Isaiah 45:21b-23
The LORD/Jehovah speaks: [b]There is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is n ...[text shortened]... led Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/b]
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
19 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Wow and thank for the copy/paste, you really expect me to read all that!
Oh my. So easy to understand my friend but until you ever even take the time and effort to understand they are two seperate individuals these scriptures will never become clear to you.
We are not trying to play any games here such as tag team. I don't have time for that as I'm sure Robbie doesn't either.
But with the translations being altered in the to see the truth about our God, his son and what the Holy Spirit is, this is going nowhere.
Oh my
I know; it must be so tiresome for you ultimate truth holders, when us poor seekers get it all so obviously wrong. (despite you and robbie being unable to explain the scriptures in the OP!)
So easy to understand my friend but until you ever even take the time and effort to understand they are two seperate individuals these scriptures will never become clear to you.
Right, let me interpret that statement: you want me spend time to see it your JW way and THEN interpret the scriptures in the light of your error? Hmmm.
We are not trying to play any games here such as tag team. I don't have time for that as I'm sure Robbie doesn't either.
And yet you found time to write (or was it really a copy/paste) about 9 inches of obfuscation to avoid addressing the scriptures you claim I have got so obviously wrong.
But with the translations being altered in the past ever so slightly by ones that were trying to promote the trinity doctrine it easy to see why the confusions are there in most bibles.
So now you are attacking the infallibility of the Word of God to defend your position?
But with the translations being altered in the past ever so slightly by ones that were trying to promote the trinity doctrine it easy to see why the confusions are there in most bibles.
I don't see the Trinity promoted anywhere in the Bible - the word does not even appear in the Bible so when God was unable to protect the integrity of his Word as you state above, he just kept the word Trinity out did he? Incidentally I don't believe in a Triune God - God is ONE.
I'm not making this up to try and convience anyone any different, but it is just a fact.
You are not making it up I believe you, some else in the JW organisation did - you just choose believe it, despite definite scriptural evidence to the contrary.
But until you or the others that want to see the truth about our God, his son and what the Holy Spirit is, this is going nowhere.
Really. I thought this was quite an interesting and pertinent thread. I'm sure you hope it's going nowhere because it will challenge your "eggshell" approach to religion i.e. one crack in the JW statement of beliefs and the whole edifice will crumble and fall (excepting all the prophesy errors over the years - but that's another thread).
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
19 Apr 11
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Interesting how your tone to Manny changes as soon as he challenges you. One day he is "my dear friend" and now you are insulting him. You other post about "what I have been saying to you for over a year" reads like you have been hoping Manny will become a JW. I seriously doubt it - in the short time I've been reading his posts I see too much truth.
You really have no idea do you?
Please never call me "your dear friend". I will challenge you every day and I will defend the integrity of the scriptures and the Deity of Christ. You may choose to accept another Gospel but you should recognise that God will always honour his Word.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
19 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75Are you going to respond to the scriptures in the OP directly? Especially Isaiah.
David's description of Jesus:
22 “The Lord formed me from the beginning,
before he created anything else.
23 I was appointed in ages past,
at the very first, before the earth began.
24 I was born before the oceans were created,
before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
25 Before the mountains were formed,
before ...[text shortened]... how I rejoiced with the human family!
Even David himself knew of Jesus's beginnings.
19 Apr 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelWell without researching all the info I do post from time to time I don't think your qualified to say they aren't truths. Again the invitation to pick any of those referances to have me post them for you is open.
Sorry to be pedantic, and I dont mean to poo-poo your posts, but I would call them truisms and not truths.
Not a big difference really and maybe I'm just being a dick, but I do think it's important to get our language as accurate as possible when dealing with these spiritual matters, as there is already so much confusion with these issues. (ie. like a ...[text shortened]... lot of issues in this forum.) 🙂
Thanks in advance for taking my response in the right spirit
19 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Ok Manny, lets hear your explination of David's words.
Also The JW understanding of that scripture and many others is twisted and not correct. The NWT is a made up to suite the doctrine of the JW's nobody else.
So are we to think that according to Col 1:15 that Christ was a created being? What is the true understanding of this verse?
Manny
19 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterAgain I refer you to my OP and especially:
Are you going to respond to the scriptures in the OP directly? Especially Isaiah.
Isaiah 45:21b-23 The LORD/Jehovah speaks: There is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me. (are you saying that Jesus is NOT the saviour?)
Why is it so hard to not understand this? First it clearly says "their is no God apart from me." Uh, that statement by God himself pretty much kills the trinity in itself, and my friend when was this written?
Oh yeah.....Had Jesus come to earth yet? Had his Father Jehovah commisioned his son to come to earth and sacrifice his life for all humans and to become our saviour at that time, YET? They can't both be our saviour? Is that only allowed by one being?
Why couldn't his son step into this position as the Bible says he humbly and voluntarily did? A perfect life had to be given in death for what Adam lost and as the Bible clearly says "no man may see God and live", so God himself could not do this, but his Son Jesus could and did.
Does not the Bible say at a future time that Jesus will hand the "Keys of the Kingdom back to his Father" and we will once again have the original relationship with God that Adam had before he sinned?
There is obviously a much bigger picture here my friend that your church or where ever you've been taught the Bible from didn't teach you!!!!
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 116952
19 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75Are you going to respond to my earlier detailed post? I'd be interested in responses to each part and especially the piece about you questioning the infallibility of the word of God.
Again I refer you to my OP and especially:
Isaiah 45:21b-23 The LORD/Jehovah speaks: There is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there is none but me. (are you saying that Jesus is NOT the saviour?)
Why is it so hard to not understand this? First it clearly says "their is no God apart from me." Uh, that statement by God himself p ...[text shortened]... that your church or where ever you've been taught the Bible from didn't teach you!!!!
Thanks