Spirituality
10 Apr 23
15 Apr 23
1 edit
@moonbus saidMuch of the universe is made of material which isn't too difficult to agree that is part of reality, but the immaterial is as much a reality as any material thing.
Do you think that using a word to characterize behavior people have a very strong distaste for means that evil isn’t real ? That it’s imaginary ? Or that you think I think it’s imaginary ? Please clarify what you think “real” means.
Love is a reality, and so is evil and both are as much a part of our world as truth and error, reality and delusions, good and bad. Friendships and enemies are also not part of the material world in that they are made of mass, but as much a part of the whole as everything else.
The immaterial world seems to me to be the most important part of the whole. Goodness, should do, ought to, righteousness, justice, caring for, innocence, and all things as these play as much a part of our reality as does the charge on an electron and gravity. Hate, evil, slander, strife, thieving, lust, broken oaths, broken promises, lies, these are products or manifestations of evil, not evil itself!
Evil reappropriates all the good things in this life and twists them for itself, while love gives for the sake of the other. I think if you only recognize the most horrible acts of hate and selfishness as evil you are blind to the world around you and the evil in it, and us.
@kellyjay saidYour self-serving ideological misanthropic notion of "evil" rinses the word "evil" of all practical meaning and application. If you are, as you claim, "equally evil as a rapist", speak for yourself. I am not.
Much of the universe is made of material which isn't too difficult to agree that is part of reality, but the immaterial is as much a reality as any material thing.
Love is a reality, and so is evil and both are as much a part of our world as truth and error, reality and delusions, good and bad. Friendships and enemies are also not part of the material world in that they ...[text shortened]... ts of hate and selfishness as evil you are blind to the world around you and the evil in it, and us.
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay said"Love" is an emotion. It has a real impact on perspectives and behaviours. It is real in that sense. "Evil" is an adjective that is spplied to egregious, sociopathic wrongdoing. There certainly is "evil" behaviour. It is real in that sense.
Love is a reality, and so is evil and both are as much a part of our world as truth and error, reality and delusions, good and bad.
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidDo you believe moonbus is "blind to the world" around him? Are you less "blind" than him because you just so happen to call everything "evil" that you consider not "good"?
I think if you only recognize the most horrible acts of hate and selfishness as evil you are blind to the world around you and the evil in it, and us.
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidThings like "hate" and "lust" only turn into immoral behaviour if they trigger actions that damage, decieve or coerce others. "Strife" is not necessarily immoral; sometimes it is necessary.
Hate, evil, slander, strife, thieving, lust, broken oaths, broken promises, lies, these are products or manifestations of evil, not evil itself!
15 Apr 23
@kellyjay saidYes, all of the immaterial things you mention are real. You seem to think that on the whole evil outweighs good in the world. Not whether evil exists, but whether man is more evil than good, that’s where we disagree. You think I’m willfully blind to all the evil you think there is. I think you’re fixated on looking for evil.
Much of the universe is made of material which isn't too difficult to agree that is part of reality, but the immaterial is as much a reality as any material thing.
Love is a reality, and so is evil and both are as much a part of our world as truth and error, reality and delusions, good and bad. Friendships and enemies are also not part of the material world in that they ...[text shortened]... ts of hate and selfishness as evil you are blind to the world around you and the evil in it, and us.
15 Apr 23
@moonbus saidI think KellyJay is fixated on stripping "evil" of its practical meaning because he is using an ideological blunderbuss. Lest we forget, his religious beliefs tell him he is forgiven for his "evil", while people who don't share his religious beliefs are not.
I think you’re fixated on looking for evil.
15 Apr 23
4 edits
@moonbus saidIt isn't a matter of weight, do you think cancer outweighs the healthy cells when it first arrives, it does depend on the type of cancer and where it appears may seal the fate of the life who gets it if it isn't treated properly. You seem to be under the impression that so many good things simply outweigh the bad therefore will never overcome the good, but it doesn't, once evil is there as a motivating force it dilutes the good to corruption and can at any moment depending on circumstances cause great harm to everyone involved, including the one who acts it out. There is a price to be paid for doing evil it harms us as well.
Yes, all of the immaterial things you mention are real. You seem to think that on the whole evil outweighs good in the world. Not whether evil exists, but whether man is more evil than good, that’s where we disagree. You think I’m willfully blind to all the evil you think there is. I think you’re fixated on looking for evil.
15 Apr 23
1 edit
@kellyjay saidThat's like Nuremburg Laws arbitrarily specifying that if one had one Jewish greatgrandparent, then one's Aryan blood was impure. Why not the reverse, that if one had one Aryan greatgrandparent, then one's Jewish blood was impure?? You're looking down the telescope from the wrong end. That's why everything looks distorted to you.
It isn't a matter of weight, do you think cancer outweighs the healthy cells when it first arrives, it does depend on the type of cancer and where it appears may seal the fate of the life who gets it if it isn't treated properly. You seem to be under the impression that so many good things simply outweigh the bad therefore will never overcome the good, but it doesn't, once e ...[text shortened]... , including the one who acts it out. There is a price to be paid for doing evil it harms us as well.
Why don't you say that once good is there as a motivating force, it redeems the evil and holds much worse evil in check? You're captive to a toxic dogma, that's why.
If most people were mostly evil most of the time, we wouldn't be here; if mankind were evil by nature, our distant ancestors would have extincted our species long ago. The fact that we are here shows that most people most of the time are pretty decent and do not wish their neighbors any harm. Large-scale evil comes about not because all men are by nature evil, but by some people allowing themselves to become deluded by demagogues and false narratives and toxic ideologies. These are the exceptions rather than the rule.
15 Apr 23
@divegeester saidHe looks at the world through a glass darkly. When one's own little fragment of mirror is cracked and stained, one thinks everything reflected in it, the whole world, is fractured and burnt.
Has your own personal evil “diluted the good “ in you?
15 Apr 23
2 edits
@moonbus saidWe are talking about what makes humans, human, it is what gets passed down to us from those before, yet quite like the biological, we are now talking about something more a line with the immaterial, our spirits/souls. Everything that makes a man a man is handed down from those who come before.
That's like Nuremburg Laws arbitrarily specifying that if one had one Jewish greatgrandparent, then one's Aryan blood was impure. Why not the reverse, that if one had one Aryan greatgrandparent, then one's Jewish blood was impure?? You're looking down the telescope from the wrong end. That's why everything looks distorted to you.
Why don't you say that once good is ...[text shortened]... demagogues and false narratives and toxic ideologies. These are the exceptions rather than the rule.
Do you think this is somehow in error? Do you believe some avoid what makes a human a human concerning being able to do both good and evil because they don't get the corrupted nature of a fallen man at birth? Who are those people who stand apart from their parents on all that makes up their family line's makeup?
We are not talking about pureblooded people as if there are those who do get the corruption, and those who only get good nature without corruption, there are none of them. I don't see how you cannot avoid conceding everything our forefathers passed down to us, it is truly unavoidable. We got corrupted at the onset and everyone since it has been a part of our nature, so funerals have been a part of our lives ever since, as someone else said first.
15 Apr 23
@moonbus saidWhen you look at the world in your glass, do you see a world of people who do only good, or good and evil? Do you see the evil that man does restricted to only a small handful of people and not throughout our whole history, or does the whole body act good all of the time, and evil things are only done by the minority and then only by the evil people, not the common man and only in pockets of time here and there?
He looks at the world through a glass darkly. When one's own little fragment of mirror is cracked and stained, one thinks everything reflected in it, the whole world, is fractured and burnt.