For anyone truly interested in understanding the truth about Isaiah 53, I suggest the following article which is cogently argued. Following are excerpts from the prelude and a link to the article. It should be read in its entirety. :
Isaiah 53 – A Jewish Perspective
Before engaging in an examination of Isaiah 53 itself, some preliminary issues must be considered. First is the issue of circular reasoning. Even if we interpret the chapter as the Christians do (forgetting for a minute the mistranslations and distortions of context which will be noted below), the most that could be said is this: Isaiah 53 is about someone who dies for the sins of others. People may have seen Jesus die, but did anyone see him die as an atonement for the sins of others? Of course not; this is simply the meaning which the New Testament gives to his death. Only if you already accept the New Testament teaching that his death had a non-visible, spiritual significance can you than go back to Isaiah and say, “see – the Prophet predicted what I already believe.”...
Second (and consistent with all Jewish teaching at the time), Jesus’ own disciples didn’t view Isaiah 53 as a messianic prophecy. For example, after Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah (Matt. 16:16), he is informed that Jesus will be killed (Matt. 16:21). His response: “God forbid it, lord! This shall never happen to you” (Matt. 16:22)...Even Jesus didn’t see Isaiah 53 as crucial to his messianic claims – why else did he call the Jews children of the devil for not believing in him before the alleged resurrection (Jn. 8:39-47)? And why did he later request that God “remove this cup from me” (Mk. 14:36) – didn’t he know that a “removal of the cup” would violate the gentile understanding of Isaiah 53?
And third, even if we accept the gentile Christian interpretation of Isaiah 53, where is it indicated (either in Isaiah 53 or anywhere else in our Jewish Scriptures) that you must believe in this “Messiah” to get the benefits?
Originally posted by @karoly-aczel Not all souls can b saved.
Only those that humbly and earnestly seek truth and righteousness can be saved.
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27 Feb '18 19:19
Originally posted by @thinkofone For anyone truly interested in understanding the truth about Isaiah 53, I suggest the following article which is cogently argued. Following are excerpts from the prelude and a link to the article. It should be read in its entirety. :
Isaiah 53 – A Jewish Perspective
Before engaging in an examination of Isaiah 53 itself, some preliminary issues ...[text shortened]... its?
I think this article might neglect a few verses in its verse-by-verse examination of Isaiah 53, but I disagree with some of the conclusions drawn from verses it examines.
Originally posted by @romans1009 I think this article might neglect a few verses in its verse-by-verse examination of Isaiah 53, but I disagree with some of the conclusions drawn from verses it examines.
Of course, because it is titled "A Jewish Perspective", not "A Christian Perspective".
Originally posted by @rajk999 I have stated clearly many times before, that :
- I do not know neither do I care what Christians actually do.
- I discuss the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles
- I compare what Christians PREACH and DISCUSS with what I believe the Bible says
So what I said is as follows
- The doctrine of some Christians encourage sin and evil and discourage right ...[text shortened]... o irrelevant
Who cares.
90% of your comments and contributions are irrelevant and nonsensical.
"Who cares?"
Apparently, going by your posting history, you care very much about judging Christians.
Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, I guess.
Originally posted by @rajk999 A doctrine that says all sins are forgiven and eternal life is guaranteed no matter what the person does, is a doctrine that encourages sin.
I dont need to know what Christians do neither do I need to ponder anything.
In case you haven't figured it out by now, no one here is advocating what you say they're advocating and no one has that doctrine you are claiming they have.
"Calling them out" for something they're not actually doing is just you trying to judge them for something in your own head.
And at the worst, it's just lying about them. They also call that "bearing false witness" against your neighbor. How many sins do you thinks that racks up?
Originally posted by @thinkofone The author presents a cogent argument. Can you?
I happen to think this "cogent argument" only applies to Jews. I'm not a Jew, and, frankly, I'm not listening to any Jews trying to tell me how to be a Christian. Again, they don't believe in Jesus, so why do you think they bring ANYthing to the table on how to be a Christian?
Originally posted by @suzianne I happen to think this "cogent argument" only applies to Jews. I'm not a Jew, and, frankly, I'm not listening to any Jews trying to tell me how to be a Christian. Again, they don't believe in Jesus, so why do you think they bring ANYthing to the table on how to be a Christian?
The author isn't explaining "how to be a Christian". The author is explaining why it makes much more sense that Isaiah 53 is speaking of Israel rather than the messiah / Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by @suzianne In case you haven't figured it out by now, no one here is advocating what you say they're advocating and no one has that doctrine you are claiming they have.
"Calling them out" for something they're not actually doing is just you trying to judge them for something in your own head.
And at the worst, it's just lying about them. They also call that "bearing false witness" against your neighbor. How many sins do you thinks that racks up?
Why don't you go around the forums and do some more flirting with shallow fellow Christians and leave the bible discussion for people who can focus... ok ?
Isaiah 53 - Messianic Prophecy?
27 Feb '18 18:55
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