Isaiah 53 - Messianic Prophecy?

Originally posted by @romans1009
We get that, honey. We just don’t believe that the same soul comes back to earth and inhabits another body.

Nor, do I think, 51 percent of people believe that as the article you referenced seems to equate believing in God with believing in reincarnation. One can (and hundreds of millions of people do) believe in God and do not believe in reincarnation.

Most who believe in reincarnation are not Christian, although I understand that some 24% of Christians also believe in reincarnation.

Although if I had to guess, I'd say that probably as many as 50% who SAY they are Christian do not follow Christ at all.

These are the mouth-worshippers Rajk talks about, the ones who even go to church and say all the right phrases, but simply do not "walk the walk".

Originally posted by @suzianne
reincarnation

noun
1. the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.
2. rebirth of the soul in a new body.
3. a new incarnation or embodiment, as of a person.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/reincarnation


Wikipedia is largely "opinion".

It’s common opinion, yes. Rather than your opinion or roman1009 opinion. He wanted common opinion. Do you have anything to add are you just going to continue being a dick.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Most who believe in reincarnation are not Christian, although I understand that some 24% of Christians also believe in reincarnation.

Although if I had to guess, I'd say that probably as many as 50% who SAY they are Christian do not follow Christ at all.

These are the mouth-worshippers Rajk talks about, the ones who even go to church and say all the right phrases, but simply do not "walk the walk".

I follow Christ with all my heart and identify as Hindu

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I follow Christ with all my heart and identify as Hindu

The concept of reincarnation does exist in the bible. Following Christ with all your heart is the narrow way that leads to eternal life.

On Isaiah 53:

Some people make a case that the Suffering Servant in chapter 53 is the nation of Israel itself.

Do you think that interpretation works?

This was written well before the time of Christ. For Jews, at best, they could argue that the NT was written to match this text.

However, what of this verse?

"And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand"

Why would God do this to a righteous man? This is unprecedented.

Originally posted by @whodey
This was written well before the time of Christ. For Jews, at best, they could argue that the NT was written to match this text.

However, what of this verse?

"And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath pu ...[text shortened]... shall prosper in his hand"

Why would God do this to a righteous man? This is unprecedented.

God allowed a righteous man (Job) to suffer in the Old Testament - some think as a lesson to Jews that suffering is not always the consequence of sin.

Therefore, with Job as an example, Jews would not come to the wrong conclusion about Jesus Christ based on what happened to Him thousands of years later.

Originally posted by @rajk999
The concept of reincarnation does exist in the bible. Following Christ with all your heart is the narrow way that leads to eternal life.

Are you referring to glorified bodies and the new heaven and new earth?

I don’t think that is how most people, including Christians, think of reincarnation, nor do I think it really qualifies as reincarnation.

Originally posted by @romans1009
God allowed a righteous man (Job) to suffer in the Old Testament - some think as a lesson to Jews that suffering is not always the consequence of sin.

Therefore, with Job as an example, Jews would not come to the wrong conclusion about Jesus Christ based on what happened to Him thousands of years later.

There is a difference.

With Job God allowed satan to persecute him, but with this fellow in Isaiah, it says it pleased God to bruise him, as if he were doing it himself.

Originally posted by @whodey
There is a difference.

With Job God allowed satan to persecute him, but with this fellow in Isaiah, it says it pleased God to bruise him, as if he were doing it himself.

Yes, you’re right. I was simply saying that in each case (Job and Jesus) righteous people suffered and it had nothing to do with punishment for their sins. Apparently at the time of Job (which may be the oldest book of the Bible,) people thought someone who was suffering was afflicted by God and was being punished by God as a consequence of their sinning. That’s why Job’s friends blamed him for all of the misfortune he was suffering.

Originally posted by @romans1009
God allowed a righteous man (Job) to suffer in the Old Testament - some think as a lesson to Jews that suffering is not always the consequence of sin.

Therefore, with Job as an example, Jews would not come to the wrong conclusion about Jesus Christ based on what happened to Him thousands of years later.

Interesting.

I thought on it and considered that Job repented at the end, confessing that he was not that righteous.

No corresponding self repentance came from the mouth of Jesus.

Both did agonize over why God had forsaken them.
But self righteous Job finally was appalled at himself.

"I had heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye has seen You;

Therefore I abhor myself. and I repent in dust and ashes." (John 42:5,6)

Originally posted by @sonship
Interesting.

I thought on it and considered that [b] Job repented at the end, confessing that he was not that righteous.

No corresponding self repentance came from the mouth of Jesus.

Both did agonize over why God had forsaken them.
But self righteous Job finally was appalled at himself.

"I had heard of You by the hear ...[text shortened]...

Therefore I abhor myself. and I repent in dust and ashes." (John 42:5,6)

[/b]

Job was righteous (in right standing with God) at the time he was persecuted. The Bible and the Lord Himself said as much:

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?“

(Job 1:1-8)

“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.“

(Job 2:1-3)

Job did repent, but he did so for questioning God *after* the persecutions against him began. He was persecuted as a test of his faith, not as a consequence of his sins.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Are you referring to glorified bodies and the new heaven and new earth?

I don’t think that is how most people, including Christians, think of reincarnation, nor do I think it really qualifies as reincarnation.

The disciples thought that John the Baptist was Elias reborn.

Do you really read the bible?

Originally posted by @rajk999
The disciples thought that John the Baptist was Elias reborn.

Do you really read the bible?

Are you aware that Christianity was not yet a religion when John the Baptist was alive? I was referring to Christians and Christianity.

Originally posted by @rajk999
The concept of reincarnation does exist in the bible. Following Christ with all your heart is the narrow way that leads to eternal life.

This Is my last life ,I work dilligently so Gabriel can give my wings back when i dye

Hinduism is very complex , I only take from it what I need