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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    23 Feb '18 23:26
    To me, Isaiah chapter 53, written about 700 years before Jesus Christ’s ministry on earth, is clearly a Messianic prophecy.

    From what I’ve heard, non-Messianic Jews who hear it for the first time think it’s from the New Testament so clearly to them does it refer to Jesus Christ and the core belief of Christianity.

    But other non-Messianic Jews think Isaiah 53 refers to the nation of Israel and not a person.

    What do you think?

    Here it is:

    “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

    For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

    He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

    Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

    (Isaiah 53)
  2. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    24 Feb '18 00:18
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    To me, Isaiah chapter 53, written about 700 years before Jesus Christ’s ministry on earth, is clearly a Messianic prophecy.

    From what I’ve heard, non-Messianic Jews who hear it for the first time think it’s from the New Testament so clearly to them does it refer to Jesus Christ and the core belief of Christianity.

    But other non-Messianic Jews think ...[text shortened]... ssors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

    (Isaiah 53)
    Who are the "strong" ? Iyho?
  3. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    24 Feb '18 00:19
    Or are u still thinking in the past?
  4. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    24 Feb '18 00:22
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Who are the "strong" ? Iyho?
    That’s a great question.

    Hadn’t really thought of it before.

    If I had to guess, I would guess the saints who will one day rule with Him - and no, I don’t think I’ll be one of them.
  5. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    24 Feb '18 00:32
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    That’s a great question.

    Hadn’t really thought of it before.

    If I had to guess, I would guess the saints who will one day rule with Him - and no, I don’t think I’ll be one of them.
    I Know you have the potential to b an amazing Saint. But only u can create it
  6. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    24 Feb '18 01:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Who are the "strong" ? Iyho?
    Is that all you got out of this?

    "Who are the strong?"

    Really?

    How about "who is this amazing person this is speaking of?"
  7. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    24 Feb '18 05:14
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Who are the "strong" ? Iyho?
    The Strong is God Himself.

    "Therefore I will divide to Him a portion with the Great,

    And He will divide the spoil with the Strong." (Isaiah 53:12a)


    The Great and the Strong is God.
  8. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    24 Feb '18 11:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    The Strong is God Himself.

    [b] "Therefore I will divide to Him a portion with the Great,

    And He will divide the spoil with the Strong." (Isaiah 53:12a)


    The Great and the Strong is God.[/b]
    Wrong, there is nothing in the Bible that you can interpret to mean that God wants any inheritance or any spoil or any portion.

    The strong and the great are the overcomers referred to in Revelation. They are the ones who overcome sin and the evils of the flesh. They are the righteous people of the earth who will share Christs Kingdom .. the Kings and Priests who will reign with Christ on the earth.
    These are the Sheep who hear His voice and follow Him. These are the strong and the great.
  9. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    24 Feb '18 12:51 / 5 edits
    "Therefore I will divide to Him a portion with the Great, And He will divide the spoil with the Strong.

    Because He poured out His life unto death
    And was numbered with the transgressors,

    Yet He alone bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors." (Isa. 53:12)


    Of course the matter of overcomers and co-kings with Christ is entirely biblical. In this passage I don't think reference is made to that, though reference is made to overcomers elsewhere both in OT and NT.

    The first part of this passage concerns the resurrected Christ, He suffered and died, YET He will see the fruit of His suffering and dying. So He must be resurrected.

    "He will see the fruit of the travail of His soul, And He will be satisfied;.. (11a)


    By His death and resurrection He has made the many who know Him, righteous.
    "By the knowledge of Him, the righteous One, My Servant, will make the many righteous." (11b)


    In His ascension, in His exaltation and enthronement, God "the Great" and God "the Strong" divided God's portion with Himself and His Son.

    "And the seventh angel trumpeted; ... The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (See Revelation 11:15)


    None of this is a contradiction to the truth that Christ will have co-kings to be rewarded to reign with Him then.
  10. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    24 Feb '18 13:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    [b] "Therefore I will divide to Him a portion with the Great, And He will divide the spoil with the Strong.

    Because He poured out His life unto death
    And was numbered with the transgressors,

    Yet He alone bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors." (Isa. 53:12)


    Of course the matter of overcomers and co-kings w ...[text shortened]... contradiction to the truth that Christ will have co-kings to be rewarded to reign with Him then.[/b]
    So God = Christ.
    Spoils are divided between God and Christ?

    Oh yeah .. how could i miss that .. makes perfect sense.

    Blessed are God and Christ: for they shall inherit the earth. (Sonship 5:5 SJV)
  11. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    24 Feb '18 13:34
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Is that all you got out of this?

    "Who are the strong?"

    Really?

    How about "who is this amazing person this is speaking of?"
    No I get it all ... and you didn't catch me
  12. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    24 Feb '18 13:37
    Originally posted by @sonship
    The Strong is God Himself.

    [b] "Therefore I will divide to Him a portion with the Great,

    And He will divide the spoil with the Strong." (Isaiah 53:12a)


    The Great and the Strong is God.[/b]
    I am God
  13. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    24 Feb '18 13:38 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    No I get it all ... and you didn't catch me
    She is kinda slow.. you have to be patient with her type.

    Your question was a though-provoking one ... thumbs up for that.
    Makes these Christians think a bit, something they dont often do.
  14. 24 Feb '18 13:49
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    I am God
    That's Satan's line.

    In reality you're just another ordinary human being, one with an extraordinarily over inflated ego and hyper illusionary concept of self.
  15. 24 Feb '18 13:53
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    She is kinda slow.. you have to be patient with her type.

    Your question was a though-provoking one ... thumbs up for that.
    Makes these Christians think a bit, something they dont often do.
    Be sure to thank God that He didn't make you like other men, or a woman, and that you're not a Christian.