1. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jun '13 00:09
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    No I didn't say that. He had a spirit just like you and I, and he is God. He was born of the virgin, sinless, the only begotten son. In that regard he is unlike us, but like us in that he experienced flesh and all that goes with it.

    Does that answer your question?
    Just asking your view and thanks for the comments.

    So if Jesus were God but here on earth how does this fit or not fit with Exodus 33:20:


    Exodus 33:20

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


    Pretty straight forward in God describing himself and what happens to a human if they were to look upon God.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Jun '13 00:23
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just asking your view and thanks for the comments.

    So if Jesus were God but here on earth how does this fit or not fit with Exodus 33:20:


    Exodus 33:20

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


    Pretty straight forward in God describing himself and what happens to a human if they were to look upon God.
    Prior to Jesus, no one got resurrected three days after death either.

    I'd say He rewrote all the playbooks.
  3. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jun '13 00:29
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Prior to Jesus, no one got resurrected three days after death either.

    I'd say He rewrote all the playbooks.
    So what's the point? Now the Old Testiment is no good for you and we shouldn't listen to it? It was all lies?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jun '13 02:09
    Originally posted by galveston75
    So what's the point? Now the Old Testiment is no good for you and we shouldn't listen to it? It was all lies?
    The following is what the apostle Paul told the Galatians about it:

    {b]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

    Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [/b]

    (Galatians 3:19-25

    The Instructor
  5. Standard membergalveston75
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    05 Jun '13 03:44
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The following is what the apostle Paul told the Galatians about it:

    {b]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

    Is the law then agains ...[text shortened]... ter faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


    (Galatians 3:19-25

    The Instructor[/b]
    The reason I asked her that question has nothing to do with your comment. It had to do with no one being able to see God and still live. She seems to think that Jesus rewrote the book on what God was and maybe is now and that the scripture I quoted is no longer true.

    But that scripture is still very true and always will be as NO ONE could ever see God and live because of his might and strength and power.
    He had that fact written down about him as a fact and it is not up to anyone to change that fact just to make a point that Jesus is "Almighty God" which he is not, never has been, and never will be.
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    05 Jun '13 04:331 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Robbie & Galveston

    What are your thoughts on this verse. Robbie you have indicated that Jesus was lower than God, this verse would seem to indicate that (God, Father, Jesus) are all the same... If I interpret it correctly. Comments?

    Isaiah 9:6

    For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come t ...[text shortened]... er. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace
    I've been here several times with our resident JWs on this. Generally they will squeeze around the scripture by claiming Jesus is "a mighty god" rather than almighty god. Therefore as they have admitted, they have "2 saviours" ... A mighty god who is Jesus and an almighty god who they call Jehovah.

    The Jehovah Witness religion despite using Christian terminology and claiming to be christian is something stand alone, it is absolutely not Christian.
  7. Standard membermenace71
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    05 Jun '13 04:58
    Originally posted by galveston75
    To be clear I do not play games with my answers or play ring around the rosie.
    In teaching someone about the Bible Jesus did not always give just a quick and to the point answer. He often asked questions to them, spoke with parables and examples and this was to get them to think and reason on their questions.
    If I just said yes or no to a question wh ...[text shortened]... ng to "burn in hell" or their head is up their a_ _ as you so often do? I would hope so.....
    So now G-man is going to teach us in parables ? 🙂 Jesus when He used a parable it was perfect and made sense.


    Manny
  8. Standard membermenace71
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    05 Jun '13 05:021 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    To be clear I do not play games with my answers or play ring around the rosie.
    In teaching someone about the Bible Jesus did not always give just a quick and to the point answer. He often asked questions to them, spoke with parables and examples and this was to get them to think and reason on their questions.
    If I just said yes or no to a question wh ng to "burn in hell" or their head is up their a_ _ as you so often do? I would hope so.....
    Your answers are not satisfactory to one asking questions because you never answer the question straight forward. Question: So will non-JW's be able to live in the paradise earth? Simple Question Yes or No



    Manny
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jun '13 06:04
    Originally posted by galveston75
    The reason I asked her that question has nothing to do with your comment. It had to do with no one being able to see God and still live. She seems to think that Jesus rewrote the book on what God was and maybe is now and that the scripture I quoted is no longer true.

    But that scripture is still very true and always will be as NO ONE could ever see Go ...[text shortened]... make a point that Jesus is "Almighty God" which he is not, never has been, and never will be.
    Yes, I believe Jesus did change that. Even though nobody has seen God the Father, people have seen Jesus, God made flesh. Jesus even told His disciples, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Jesus also said, I and My Father are one (GOD).

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    05 Jun '13 12:44
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just asking your view and thanks for the comments.

    So if Jesus were God but here on earth how does this fit or not fit with Exodus 33:20:


    Exodus 33:20

    King James Version (KJV)


    20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.


    Pretty straight forward in God describing himself and what happens to a human if they were to look upon God.
    Jesus at the time of Exodus was the 'Word'. It was only after he was born to the virgin, flesh and blood that he was called Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus.


    John 1:1-3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


    Matthew 1:23
    King James Version (KJV)

    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


    Matthew 1:25
    King James Version (KJV)

    25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.


    John 1:13-15
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    Because of that little impropriety of Adam, namely sin, relationship with God was cut off. We (mankind) now could no longer be in the presence of God and live because of sin, we would die. It is because of his love for us that he would protect us.

    In that way it is not much different than us as fathers/mothers would protect our children (if you have children) from danger, we would intervene on their behalf to prevent them from being injured. This is a simplified analogy and lame, because God's love for us exceeds anything that I could ever describe or put to paper... for what it is worth.

    Exodus 33:20
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    When Jesus came, he made a way for us to come back to the presence of God, through him. Through what Jesus did on the cross and dying for our sins, even though he was innocent and it was out of love for us he did it, we could now know God once again as God had intended it, Jesus is the way.


    John 14:6-7
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

    So through Jesus, we can now see God. I hope this helps, it was more than you were probably looking for, but some background is important.
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    05 Jun '13 13:06
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Jesus at the time of Exodus was the 'Word'. It was only after he was born to the virgin, flesh and blood that he was called Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus.


    [b]John 1:1-3

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things ...[text shortened]... this helps, it was more than you were probably looking for, but some background is important.[/b]
    interesting and yet no man has seen God at any time, are you saying that no man saw Jesus at any time? John 1:18, so either your assertion that Jesus is God is untrue or that the Bibles assertion that no man has seen God is untrue, which is it?
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    05 Jun '13 13:45
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    interesting and yet no man has seen God at any time, are you saying that no man saw Jesus at any time? John 1:18, so either your assertion that Jesus is God is untrue or that the Bibles assertion that no man has seen God is untrue, which is it?
    John 1:18 needs to be taken into account through context.

    John 1:10-20
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
    16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
    17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
    18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
    20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

    The writer here is speaking about John the Baptist and who he was, it is the account of John if you will (a third party speaking). I am not saying 'no man has seen Jesus', Jesus was seen by men as recorded in the Bible. My assertion that Jesus is God is not mine, but is recorded in the Bible. Man has seen God because man has seen Jesus. You have to take into account when things are recorded along the timeline.



    For example...

    If I had kept a journal of my life, when I was 10 I might say something like, i don't know...

    01/01/1974 - I heard today that someone spotted a UFO, I never saw a UFO, but I would like to see a UFO.

    fast forward to 01/01/1994...

    01/01/1994 - Today I saw a UFO for the first time.


    If someone was reading my journal some years later and read my entry 01/01/1974, they would see that I said, "I never saw a UFO". When they read my entry for 01/01/1994 they would read "Today I saw a UFO for the first time".

    So the question is... did I see a UFO, did I say I saw a UFO? It depends. Well yes I did, in 1994 not 1974, so what is the time frame and who is speaking. Context is important.
    I hope my silly example helps you to get the gist of it and that this clears up any confusion.


    John 14:6-7
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


    I believe what Jesus said (these are Jesus' words), don't you? Do you read this differently?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jun '13 14:58
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    Jesus at the time of Exodus was the 'Word'. It was only after he was born to the virgin, flesh and blood that he was called Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus.


    [b]John 1:1-3

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things ...[text shortened]... this helps, it was more than you were probably looking for, but some background is important.[/b]
    You forgot this part about why He was named, Jesus.

    But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

    (Matthew 1:20-21 NKJV)

    The reason he was named Jesus was because he would save His people from their sins. You see His name was actually Yahshua, which means "Yah saves" or in other words "God saves."

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!

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    05 Jun '13 15:031 edit
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    John 1:18 needs to be taken into account through context.

    [b]John 1:10-20

    King James Version (KJV)

    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that belie eve what Jesus said (these are Jesus' words), don't you? Do you read this differently?[/b]
    No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    either these words are false or your assertion that Christ is God is false, they are mutually exclusive. Plenty of People saw Jesus and you have as yet to explain why, if no man has seen God at any time.
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    05 Jun '13 15:36
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    either these words are false or your assertion that Christ is God is false, they are mutually exclusive. Plenty of People saw Jesus and you have as yet to explain why, if no man has seen God at any time.
    I gave an explanation as best as I could and substantiated what I have claimed with the scripture and what was spoken. You may have an issue with how I interpret, translation, and what I know, I understand... I get it. But I, have no conflict. I am though open to a higher and deeper understanding of these things if presented with them however, this is how we learn.

    Perhaps there is some other Christian reading this thread that can add to the conversation?

    Plenty of People saw Jesus and you have as yet to explain why


    Why what, why people saw Jesus? Not sure what you are asking here, could you be a little clearer?

    Does this help?
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