08 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75I think you go door to door in an attempt to earn imaginary browny points.
Do you really think we are after "sign ups" as you say? Geeeez, you really have no idea about what Jesus taught and the reasons for it and why he taught his followers to do the same to others that would listen.
So in case you really have missed the point of it all and it seems you have, it is to"SAVE LIFE'S" and help ones to find that are truly searc ...[text shortened]... understanding of spiritual matters and get a better hold of reality and the bigger picture?
The Instructor
09 Jun 13
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Stop looking down your nose at me Galveston, I am a critic of your organisation, it's beliefs, doctrines, motives, methods, outcomes and therefore it's ministry. Your childish attempts to slur my understanding of the bible and the normal Christian life will not deter me I assure you. I shall continue to call out the cultish tendencies and false doctrines of yours and other controlling vicarious pseudo Christian organisations. You should seek righteousness in Jesus alone and drop this pompous facade of righteousness through membership and legalistic adherence to an erroneous governing body. Jesus is calling you to come out (not through me but through other means).
Do you really think we are after "sign ups" as you say? Geeeez, you really have no idea about what Jesus taught and the reasons for it and why he taught his followers to do the same to others that would listen.
So in case you really have missed the point of it all and it seems you have, it is to"SAVE LIFE'S" and help ones to find that are truly searc ...[text shortened]... understanding of spiritual matters and get a better hold of reality and the bigger picture?
To be clear for you, I am a bible believing independent Christian. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour through his calling and faith in the finished work at calvary and am happy to pronounce that in the face of your sneering contempt and the mockery of the slavering atheist.
10 Jun 13
Originally posted by divegeesterNo problem buddy but you have to do the same....
Stop looking down your nose at me Galveston, I am a critic of your organisation, it's beliefs, doctrines, motives, methods, outcomes and therefore it's ministry. Your childish attempts to slur my understanding of the bible and the normal Christian life will not deter me I assure you. I shall continue to call out the cultish tendencies and false doctrines ...[text shortened]... pronounce that in the face of your sneering contempt and the mockery of the slavering atheist.
10 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75I sometimes question your organisations interpretation of the bible sure, but the only time I find you worthy of contempt is in your inability to give direct honest answers to direct questions about your organisations doctrines.
No problem buddy but you have to do the same....
10 Jun 13
Originally posted by divegeesterOh my goodness. Has it never really crossed your mind that you just don't get it? Maybe we do answer your questions and you aren't understanding them or just perhaps you don't want to understand because of your dislike for the JW's and you simply close your mind and don't hear because it's NOT what you want to hear?
I sometimes question your organisations interpretation of the bible sure, but the only time I find you worthy of contempt is in your inability to give direct honest answers to direct questions about your organisations doctrines.
Guess what? We see that all the time with ones who do really do not want our answers and the reason for that is it opens up a little reality on some spiritual issues that many do not want to admit too.
You are really stuck on the issue of who God is working thru and who will survive his judgements. Why is that? Are you afraid that you are not doing the things you should be doing or your church is not doing the things it should be doing or is not doing?
11 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75Really???
Oh my goodness. Has it never really crossed your mind that you just don't get it? Maybe we do answer your questions and you aren't understanding them or just perhaps you don't want to understand because of your dislike for the JW's and you simply close your mind and don't hear because it's NOT what you want to hear? Guess what? We see that all the time ...[text shortened]... is it opens up a little reality on some spiritual issues that many do not want to admit to
Perhaps you would like to address the quote from your own literature which I've posted in the JW dilemma thread before you carry on accusing me and throwing out ad hominem.
11 Jun 13
Originally posted by divegeesterI stand by my above comment. NO matter what Robbie, myself or the WTS says it will never be enough for you....
Really???
Perhaps you would like to address the quote from your own literature which I've posted in the JW dilemma thread before you carry on accusing me and throwing out ad hominem.
11 Jun 13
Originally posted by galveston75Acts 5
I have a challenge for all.
Show a scripture or scriptures that says word for word that the holy spirit, Jesus and his Father are the same spirit being? Nothing vague or maybe it says it but a scripture that anyone from any time has said they are the same spirit being?
For instance to counter Deut 6:14 says: "Our God is 1 God." ( Ever wonder why ...[text shortened]... would be to find a simple scripture that says: Our God is 3 God's in 1.
Fair enough...Go.
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Fate of Ananias and Sapphira
5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s [a]full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not [b]under your control? Why is it that you have [c]conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. 6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.
This Proves two things one that the Spirit is God and two the spirit is personified and is not just some random energy force.
Manny
11 Jun 13
Message to Smyrna
Revelation 2:8
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this
This proves the First & The Last or Alpha and Omega and Christ are the same person also. Jesus was the one who was dead and has come to life and the Almighty calls Himself the Alpha & Omega. Either Jesus is a blasphemer OR He is the Alpha & Omega
Manny
11 Jun 13
Originally posted by menace71Where is this speaking of Jesus as being Almighty God? No mention of that point that I'd like to see.
Acts 5
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Fate of Ananias and Sapphira
5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s [a]full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart ...[text shortened]... rit is God and two the spirit is personified and is not just some random energy force.
Manny
And yes the holy spiriit is God himself. It is his power or his will that he uses to actually do things. Like a muscle we humans use to push a car. Jehovah is not fleshly so he does not use that fleshly force that we use. His in invisible.
But still this scripture is not calling it "Almighty God" or a third godhead that can think or act independently on it's own. No where will you ever find that in the Bible.
So yes if we lie to the holy spirit we are lying to God. Why is it not saying we are lying to Jesus? Because the holy spirit is no part of Jesus, it only belongs to Jehovah.
11 Jun 13
Originally posted by menace71ALPHA AND OMEGA
Message to Smyrna
Revelation 2:8
8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this
This proves the First & The Last or Alpha and Omega and Christ are the same person also. Jesus was the one who was dead and has come to life and the Almighty calls Himself the Alpha & Omega. Either Jesus is a blasphemer OR He is the Alpha & Omega
Manny
These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.
While many commentators apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God. The first verse of Revelation 1:1 shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8) Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God [“Jehovah God,” NW], who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in Re 1 verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”
The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; Re 22 verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, Re 22 verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of Re 22 verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of Re 22 verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of Re 22 verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in Re 22 verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.