Originally posted by sonhouseSo you don't hold those people who are doing those things as bad, but religion
The religions condone the actions of those 'evil' men. Encourages it. Have you seen the hate schools in Islam culture? Have you heard the broadcasts of the right wing nut job so-called christians on the shortwaves? I have, and they openly called for death of those not of their sub cult. When I listen to those nut job radio stations I am ashamed to be called ...[text shortened]... ull of piety in full view but plotting mayhem in the back? How are you going to suss them out?
itself? You may as well call all nations as bad as I'm sure there are some in
every nation that do the samething, you may as well call all goverments evil
or bad as I'm sure there are those withinn each govenment that also does the
samething, you may as well call all races bad as there are those within every
race that does the same things too.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI think in the case of religion, it is a special case because there is no refuting the call to glory of god or whatever. If you are a normal thug, the guy with the biggest weapon wins. In the case of the religious nut jobs willing to suicide, there are thousands more just like him wanting to get his 73 virgins. You can't fight that kind of thinking with just more weaponry. It is the religion itself that is evil. You eradicate ther religion, you eradicate the kind of thinking that leads to suicide attacks.
So you don't hold those people who are doing those things as bad, but religion
itself? You may as well call all nations as bad as I'm sure there are some in
every nation that do the samething, you may as well call all goverments evil
or bad as I'm sure there are those withinn each govenment that also does the
samething, you may as well call all races bad as there are those within every
race that does the same things too.
Kelly
Most of them anyway. There is always the kama kazi types fanatically attached to a leader, with its own problems, but there, you kill the leader and the Kama's don't have a motivation to kill for him any more.
Originally posted by sonhouseI do not think religion is a special case and I wonder why you do? If those
I think in the case of religion, it is a special case because there is no refuting the call to glory of god or whatever. If you are a normal thug, the guy with the biggest weapon wins. In the case of the religious nut jobs willing to suicide, there are thousands more just like him wanting to get his 73 virgins. You can't fight that kind of thinking with jus ...[text shortened]... t there, you kill the leader and the Kama's don't have a motivation to kill for him any more.
things are bad and if the "glory to god/country/race/whatever" are the banners
to carry out such actions then all the banners are bad! If you want to limit your
hate mail to a certain few banners, and let slide others who are doing the same
thing, what does that make you?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt makes me not kill. It makes me jump in and save people in trouble with no thought of some kind of reverie in some kind of heavenly reward for such actions.
I do not think religion is a special case and I wonder why you do? If those
things are bad and if the "glory to god/country/race/whatever" are the banners
to carry out such actions then all the banners are bad! If you want to limit your
hate mail to a certain few banners, and let slide others who are doing the same
thing, what does that make you?
Kelly
There are very very few societies in which people are willing to suicide for their leader like the fanatical religions. The fact it is so prevalent in some religions shows how evil emanates from the religion itself, when it is written in supposed holy books read by millions of converts.
There is no question in my mind the evil is in the religion and passed on man to man.
Originally posted by SuzianneBut once we disconnect religious influence from people's actions, we begin to admit that religion does not have much actual power to thwart bad behavior or change people. It is more like some traditional/societal/cultural convention that everyone accepts even though it is mostly all talk and little action. Worse, the talk sometimes comes after the action - the use of religion to justify whatever it was the person already wanted to do. Religion becomes the follower of the culture, not the leader.
How many times must I say it?
These are not the failings [b]of religion. These are the failings of evil men. It has nothing to do with religion. Satan wins when we blame the sin of evil men on religion.[/b]
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't think it matters what "reward" or "reason" is given for such hate speech
It makes me not kill. It makes me jump in and save people in trouble with no thought of some kind of reverie in some kind of heavenly reward for such actions.
There are very very few societies in which people are willing to suicide for their leader like the fanatical religions. The fact it is so prevalent in some religions shows how evil emanates from th ...[text shortened]... verts.
There is no question in my mind the evil is in the religion and passed on man to man.
and again I think you are being very selective here! I still don't get if you can
slam all religion for some people's bad actions that you don't slam all other
groups that do the samethings in different ways! The point isn't this reward is
better or worse than any other if the end result is to pit one against another
or am I missing something from you? Seriously, you have painted with a very
large brush so many people for things others are also doing and yet you are
only concerning yourself with the rewards? Isn't the evil that is being passed
down in so many different ways the real issue, and that it just shows itself or
displays itself differently when it comes from race, government, nationality,
or religion?
Kelly
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If a small Islam group made a reciprocal film, condemning Jesus as a bad apple, would the world Christian community be out burning flags of Islamic nations?
I very much doubt it. Indeed the Christian world would probably say, "forgive them, for they know not what they do" ; and that would be done with it.....
So, in essence, in my book, Christians are not extremists...... as opposed to others; those others being likely to jump on any bandwagon, to demonstrate their fundamentalist extremism, as has been shown.
-m. ??
Originally posted by mikelomYou may be right in general but there are extremist christian groups also, like the survivalists in Montana, armed militia in the hills just waiting for the day that civilization collapses and they get to form their own savage government. I just hope that day is a few thousand years in the future.
If a small Islam group made a reciprocal film, condemning Jesus as a bad apple, would the world Christian community be out burning flags of Islamic nations?
I very much doubt it. Indeed the Christian world would probably say, "forgive them, for they know not what they do" ; and that would be done with it.....
So, in essence, in my book, Christians are ...[text shortened]... on any bandwagon, to demonstrate their fundamentalist extremism, as has been shown.
-m. ??
Originally posted by mikelomchristian extremism was tempered by the renaissance movement. the muslims did not have the kind of enlightenment and they are several hundred years behind christians.
If a small Islam group made a reciprocal film, condemning Jesus as a bad apple, would the world Christian community be out burning flags of Islamic nations?
I very much doubt it. Indeed the Christian world would probably say, "forgive them, for they know not what they do" ; and that would be done with it.....
So, in essence, in my book, Christians are ...[text shortened]... on any bandwagon, to demonstrate their fundamentalist extremism, as has been shown.
-m. ??
the christians, having gone into their lands and exploited them and their natural resources and propping up dictators hasn't helped the situation.
now having said that, i would have to agree that christianity, with its fundamental roots is a religion of peace and pacifism. it is the adherents of the faith who ignore their lord's words and the ones who serve two masters (god and country) that are generally war-like.
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Well it's clear to everyone now that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. And never has been. But they sure try to pawn it off as one. The attacks today started right after their daily prayers. What a joke.
And then they had the nerve to attack a KFC in the name of Mohamed. Now that's a unforgivable sin.
If only the Chinese would get mad at us and attack our US companies there. The 1% would have to ship all our jobs back home and we wouldn't have to pay them the money back we owe them.