It all begins and ends in your mind.

@secondson said
Maybe a little relatively speaking, but certainly not everything.

Try to say things more incisive than this to me if you can.

@secondson said
You don't "believe" what the Bible says about the soul and spirit, but you don't know for certain whether you're right or not.

Do you think you are a “forum saver”?

Are you in the process of saving this particular forum?

@fmf said
Humans have a capacity for abstraction. They also have curiosity - about themselves and the world around them. They also can conceive of their own finite existence. They also have the inclination, in many cases, to aspire to immortality. This is where the "God conscious" thing comes from. Then various groups insist that "God" or a god or gods have revealed revealed themselves to humans. This is where religiosity has its roots.

Consciousness of God cannot be logically understood except by revelation.

What God doesn't reveal about himself cannot be known. Pure logic.

It is through the mechanism of the spirit that God reveals Himself to man.

An experience you haven't had, which is why you dismiss the idea. An abstraction unfathomable to the natural mind with which you are confined.

@secondson said
Consciousness of God cannot be logically understood except by revelation.

In the absence of any credible revelations, I believe supposed "Consciousness of God" is simply a facet of the human condition (evidence: thousands and thousands of religions down through human history) in harness with the human capacities and inclinations that I made reference to in an earlier post.

@secondson said
It is through the mechanism of the spirit that God reveals Himself to man.

Ah yes, that old chestnut. Something supernatural has happened to you which has given you 'special knowledge' that is not accessible to those people who have no reason to believe that anything supernatural has happened to you. Ah yes.

@secondson said
An experience you haven't had, which is why you dismiss the idea. An abstraction unfathomable to the natural mind with which you are confined.

We are all "confined" to our minds. All our minds are "natural". Nothing you are claiming is "unfathomable".

@divegeester said
I could hazard a guess at what the metaphor for the ever merciful Jesus supervising the eternal torture of billions of people in hell could mean. I could be wrong in my guess of course but I would still be correct that it is a metaphor., which is the main point in play here. My ability to interpret the metaphor is irrelevant to it being a methaphor. Do you understand that?

You are side stepping the issue, you declare Jesus doesn't mean what He is clearly
saying and denounce that. Yet offer nothing other than your distaste for what is
clearly said, and if it were symbolic of something else, would that something else
not also be as horrible as the words used? You have a faith issue, one where you
think all truth must be acceptable to you, when that isn't the case. In all walks of
life things can true and not to our liking, our liking isn't measure of what is true
we are not that important.

@kellyjay said
You are side stepping the issue, you declare Jesus doesn't mean what He is clearly
saying and denounce that. Yet offer nothing other than your distaste for what is
clearly said, and if it were symbolic of something else, would that something else
not also be as horrible as the words used? You have a faith issue, one where you
think all truth must be acceptable to you, wh ...[text shortened]... can true and not to our liking, our liking isn't measure of what is true
we are not that important.

I don’t believe that the God of mercy will design a circumstance, place and methodology to personally torture billions of people while keeping them supernaturally alive for eternity. I categorically refuse to believe it, I reject the God that will do this, I reject your ideology, your version of Christianity and I am happy to stand before the living God an explain myself on this matter.

I’m sorry that you have an issue with this and feel that it is me who has the problem.

@divegeester said
I don’t believe that the God of mercy will design a circumstance, place and methodology to personally torture billions of people while keeping them supernaturally alive for eternity. I categorically refuse to believe it, I reject the God that will do this, I reject your ideology, your version of Christianity and I am happy to stand before the living God an explain myself ...[text shortened]... s matter.

I’m sorry that you have an issue with this and feel that it is me who has the problem.

It isn't me you have an issue with, I'm not the one who wrote the scriptures or said
the things Jesus said.

@divegeester said
Do you think you are a “forum saver”?

Are you in the process of saving this particular forum?

Yes. I'm the world's greatest forum saver! If it weren't for me this place would dry up.

@divegeester said
I don’t believe that the God of mercy will design a circumstance, place and methodology to personally torture billions of people while keeping them supernaturally alive for eternity. I categorically refuse to believe it, I reject the God that will do this, I reject your ideology, your version of Christianity and I am happy to stand before the living God an explain myself ...[text shortened]... s matter.

I’m sorry that you have an issue with this and feel that it is me who has the problem.

"...I am happy to stand before the living God an explain myself on this matter."

While you're at it ask God why He flooded the earth killing billions of innocent men, women and children. Maybe you don't believe that happened either.

@fmf said
Ah yes, that old chestnut. Something supernatural has happened to you which has given you 'special knowledge' that is not accessible to those people who have no reason to believe that anything supernatural has happened to you. Ah yes.

That's right FMF. I've been born again.

And to think you spent well over two decades playing religion. You must be feeling ill because of that. I would.

@fmf said
We are all "confined" to our minds. All our minds are "natural". Nothing you are claiming is "unfathomable".

For you everything "supernatural" is unfathomable.

You are in a natural state. Your mind is confined to it.

@secondson said
For you everything "supernatural" is unfathomable.

Actually, I think humanity's predilection for speculation and conjecture about supernatural phenomena - especially stuff that promises people everlasting life - is mundane, unsurprising, and not profound at all; certainly not "unfathomable".

@kellyjay said
It isn't me you have an issue with, I'm not the one who wrote the scriptures or saidthe things Jesus said.

I have neither and issue with you (I’m not sure why you are inferring I think that), nor with the scriptures.

I am comfortable with metaphor and symbolism in the bible; I note that you avoided my post recently challenging any Christian to decide which was literal and which was metaphor in a passage from Revelation.